Re: Native American Spirituality - Page 3

pohaikawahine · 09-02-2005, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

this question is for pohaikawahine

can you tell me, do the Hawaiian tribes refer to God as the GREAT SPIRIT, like some of the mainland tribes do?
thank you in advance.

no and I will try to explain concepts that existed prior to the arrival of missionaries .... the eernal creator was known by different names .... sometimes he was called I'O , Teave, Te Tumu Nui, Te Atua Uru, Te Atau Ra, I'ao, Mauriora, Te Ra .... all of these names relate to one soul, one's genuine inner self, infinite world, infinite light, supreme light of the world, the eternal spirit of Ra (yes our name for the sun was "ra" and after the arrival of the missionaries, the "r" sound was changed to "l" and now we use "la") *.... Teave is the most used name .... there are four trinities which make of the cast of twelve major divinities .... and there is the spiritual seven, together with Teave, that make up the sacred eight .... a good book to read for anyone that is interested is "Children of the Rainbow by Leinani Melville" it was put out by The Theosophical Publishing House in 1969 ....there are others, but I like Melville's the best .... and of course, there are many other pieces that do not appear in any books to date .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahie

*if any of you have been to hawaiian islands you have probably heard of the mountain Haleakala .... "hale" means a house or could be a clan, "a" is of, "ka" is the, and "la" is the sun .... house of the sun .....

pohaikawahine · 09-02-2005, 04:40 AM

aloha e inlove .... when I mentioned hawaiian and polynesian, they are basically the same with some slight variations in legends and stories and even languages .... there are three major triangles in the Pacific ... the polynesian triangle, the micronesian triangle, and the melanesian triangle .... all are linked, but when I speak of polynesian I mean the polynesian triangle of which the hawaiian islands are a part .... I can also speak a little to micronesia because I spent many years there .... hope this helps to explain .... someone on another posting said that her husband is an Inuit Shaman, perhaps he might help a little with this thread on native american spirituality (I think she posted in the thread on cross religious relationships) .... seems like he would be a better resource on native american spirituality than I .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine

Bandit · 09-02-2005, 08:14 AM

I have heard of these before -I'O & Mauriora, but never any of the others. i am sure there is a LOT more to it all but thanks for giving the basics, pohaikawahine.

i pray the missionaries who came were nice to everyone.

pohaikawahine · 09-02-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

I have heard of these before -I'O & Mauriora, but never any of the others. i am sure there is a LOT more to it all but thanks for giving the basics, pohaikawahine.

i pray the missionaries who came were nice to everyone.

thank you bandit for your graciousness .... i try in my life not to cast blame and debated about how to answer this one .... i'll give a small bit of history because some times i think we are numb to history as told by others about us .... although i'm sure there were missionaries that arrived with much thought about how they would save others with their religious beliefs many also played major roles in the loss of our lands .... just a few examples ....

one missionary family that played a major role in 'education' of the ali'i (kings and queens) was known to have beat some of the children they were caring for .... these very children were the decendants of the ali'i ....decendants of those missionaries found some of the diaries that spoke to this ....

missionaries were prominant among the group that formed the "provisional government" which played a role in the illegal overthrow of the kingdom .... it was based largely on the queen's (liliuokalani) testimony of what happened that the clinton administration signed the current "apology bill" ....

the missionaries established a new language for the "heathen they had come to save from the pit of darkness" and, perhaps without knowledge, systematically buried much of the ancient knowledge built into the language .. some of the new terminology was made in order to "administer medicine for the health of the barbarians" ...

some of the descendants of missionaries were involved in the opium trades while at the same time taking on roles with the hawaiian government as followers of the church ....

part of the reason I have spent so much time looking at the ancient ways is that intuitively I knew that spirituality was our path and yet there was so little written about it because so many had converted and would no longer talk of the past since it would sound 'pagan' (no offense intended toward the use of this word because it is both positive and negative in its connotations) .... but when asked where we came from, the people replied in hawaiian that "we came from the void" .... which was interpreted by the missionaries as "they came from hell" .... the word for the void would be "po" which can be translated as darkness or chaos ..... but certainly not "hell" ....

I have found that not many can love and appreciate the ancient path because they are still fearful of what it appears to be .... when I speak of the pig's head as a symbol (which was used in the collection of taxes at the time of the makahiki) I was told that I must believe in a pig cult or something .... so I have also learned to close doors to many discussions .... and that pig head symbol .... if you look at a mountain from a distance it appears as the head of a "boar" (especially volcanoes) .... the top of the mountain is part of the symbol .... and during the makahiki, the old rituals take place in a walk that is a spiral around and up the mountain and back down ....

sorry, this opened some old wounds that I don't always speak of .... within our family (which is very large) there are "missionaries" (those that follow the teaching of some churches that support the missonary concept) .... and of course I love them deeply and we share our differences in how we see the world of spirituality .... and this is what one would find now on the hawaiian islands, those that are members of many different churches and believe the old ways were wrong, and those that believe the missionaries came and helped destroy an ancient way of life that was in balance .... it is no different than the history of many other peoples and many are seeking to return to that place of balance and harmony if we are expected to survive another seven generations .... I suppose it like taking the symbols of "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek" literally, when even these are metaphors ....
when the road forks, which path will we take ..... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

Bandit · 09-06-2005, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pohaikawahine

thank you bandit for your graciousness ........

sorry, this opened some old wounds that I don't always speak of .... within our family (which is very large) there are "missionaries" (those that follow the teaching of some churches that support the missonary concept) .... and of course I love them deeply and we share our differences in how we see the world of spirituality .... and this is what one would find now on the hawaiian islands, those that are members of many different churches and believe the old ways were wrong, and those that believe the missionaries came and helped destroy an ancient way of life that was in balance .... it is no different than the history of many other peoples and many are seeking to return to that place of balance and harmony if we are expected to survive another seven generations .... I suppose it like taking the symbols of "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek" literally, when even these are metaphors ....
when the road forks, which path will we take ..... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

dont feel badly pohaikawahine. the same things happened to the indians on the mainland.
i do understand & wish i could change things & make them better. seems to me, God always has a way of letting us get back to the fork in the road if we got off on the wrong road.

pohaikawahine · 09-07-2005, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

dont feel badly pohaikawahine. the same things happened to the indians on the mainland.
i do understand & wish i could change things & make them better. seems to me, God always has a way of letting us get back to the fork in the road if we got off on the wrong road.

aloha e bandit .... you have started to change things already by your sensitive and gracious words .... I pray it is the process we are all involved in and why we even participate on this forum .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine

Quahom1 · 09-07-2005, 06:02 AM

Hmm, my sons' Grandmother is Cherokee. Perhaps that explains why they don't burn in the sun...and have tremendous rhythm (didn't get that from me)

v/r

Q

InLove · 09-08-2005, 08:21 AM

Hello again, and peace to all here--

I started this thread right before I landed my recent "project". I am so used to being in charge, at least partially, of everything I do, that to work for someone else is quite disruptive

. (Don't get me wrong, please--I did it for many years! Just did not think I would have to do it again!

)

Thanks for all the great posts. I surely will return to this conversation in more depth when I can.

It means a great deal to me. Some of what has been said here may sound strange or even shallow to others. And I was truly worried about starting it. And there is so much in my heart and spirit that is difficult for me to discuss. There are good reasons for this.

But I am so glad to have people to at least start talking with. I appreciate you all.

Be back as soon as I can--

InPeace,
InLove