questions about practice

[toujour_333]

ok, ive recently been reading this book and its really confusing me. it basically says that if u work towards enlightenment, then u will only become farther from it b/c enlightenment is something that just happens when one is ready. i'm very confused by this since it also says that u shouldnt make an effort to change ur actions b/c once u see what ur doing, it will happen automatically. i dont know about any of u, but this isnt the case for me. i think that we need to work on ourselves and try to do the right thing, even if our bodies or minds are telling us to do something else. is this wrong or is the book im reading wrong?

i know that buddhism is a very personal religion and there is no one set way in reaching enlightenment, but this is telling me not to do anything. my personal opnion is that buddha gave us a path that lead him to enlightenment, and we should take this advice into consideration but not follow blindly. try it out and if it works, then great. but my problem is that if what im doing is wrong, then why do it. if what im doing now is sure to not help me, then why not try another path? but this book is trying to tell me that if i try anything, then it will be in vain. it says that i just need to 'see' what it is that i am doing, and just by seeing, i will become enlightened. this, to me, is confusing and i believe its wrong. what about all of u? any advice out there for a new buddhist on the reaching of enlightenment? does anyone know of any good websites about the different sects of buddhism and what they beleive? i havent done a lot of searching in that area and id like to do more but its hard to search online for all the different sect, read all the different web pages, and tell whats the difference when u dont have a starting point. can anyone out there point me in a good direction?

thanks and be well in peace
sabbe sattaa sukhi hontu
(be well in peace)

[Zazen]

happy new years, yea im awake at 1am

u sound like me years ago. listen, the buddha taught there are countless paths that lead to 'enlightenment' which is just a word.. i mean, what are u talking about really? a child can be "enlightened" to the fact that 1+1=2 but only by someone showing them.

you see where im going with this? what it sounds like the author is trying to say is, truth cannot be found outside yourself, the only thing you will find 'out there' is tools, methods, paths. in the end what changes is you, a book, a teacher, a method, isnt going to help you understand the intuitive wisdom that you sound as if your seeking, the only source for this understanding or "enlightenment" is already within you.

the heart of the buddhas teaching is;

do good
avoid evil
purify the mind

the "the 8 fold path" and the "four noble truths" are tools, to help you cultivate what is already there..

its hard explaining such things because most will get caught up in the concepts and perceptions of "self" "non-self", spirit, mind, voidness or emptiness etc etc.

so..yknow, just keep on truckin, if your truly determined, like i told you in the previous thread, when you are ready, a master will appear. maybe this is what you need, some are more reliant on a teacher then others, whether it be via sutras, or another mans word or whatever

in the end, youll find in time, what im trying to say.

the problem lies not within this teaching or that religion, or whatever, it lies within you, which is where the truth is also apparent

[toujour_333]

thank u, this makes much sense. i shouldnt be looking outside for what i can only find inside myself or my preception of what that is. i appreciate this, it makes a lot of sense. be well in peace.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Toujour,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by toujour_333

ok, ive recently been reading this book and its really confusing me.

may i inquire which book you are reading at the moment?

it basically says that if u work towards enlightenment, then u will only become farther from it b/c enlightenment is something that just happens when one is ready.

as Zazen mentioned, there are many ways by which a being can approach the Dharma, some are more appropos than others depending on an individuals capacity.

many beings approach the spiritual practice as something which more solidly builds the edifice of self. from this point of view, it would tend to create a stronger delusion of the self rather than weakening this view.

at some point it would be beneficial, in my view, to find a teacher and ask them pointed questions like this

i'm very confused by this since it also says that u shouldnt make an effort to change ur actions b/c once u see what ur doing, it will happen automatically. i dont know about any of u, but this isnt the case for me. i think that we need to work on ourselves and try to do the right thing, even if our bodies or minds are telling us to do something else. is this wrong or is the book im reading wrong?

perhaps you are parsing it incorrectly, it is hard to say at this point

in any event, it is absolutely correct that one must generate an intentional effort to develop Bodhichitta.

Buddhism takes two broad approaches to the spiritual progress of a being, working from the outside in (i.e Sila, moral and ethical discipline) and working from the inside out (meditation). so, it sort of depends on where you are with the practice and your own capacity to practice these things.

i know that buddhism is a very personal religion and there is no one set way in reaching enlightenment, but this is telling me not to do anything. my personal opnion is that buddha gave us a path that lead him to enlightenment, and we should take this advice into consideration but not follow blindly. try it out and if it works, then great.

indeed, this is the heart of the Kalama Suttas exhortation to put the teachings to the test.

but my problem is that if what im doing is wrong, then why do it. if what im doing now is sure to not help me, then why not try another path?

generally speaking, this is the method that i would recommend. test them until you find a school or view which is suitable to you and makes sense. once you have found that view, take refuge therein and go from there.

but this book is trying to tell me that if i try anything, then it will be in vain. it says that i just need to 'see' what it is that i am doing, and just by seeing, i will become enlightened. this, to me, is confusing and i believe its wrong.

it is difficult to say "wrong" or "right" in my view since so much of this depends on ones individual capacity.

that does not, however, prevent some beings from asserting that such and such is the only "true" method of Awakening we find that this is a common phenomena throughout the words religions

what about all of u? any advice out there for a new buddhist on the reaching of enlightenment?

hmm... a bit tricky, that.

my advice to you in this regard is thus:

investigate, test like a goldsmith tests gold to find its impurities and, to paraphrase the Buddha Shakyamuni, light your own lamp to guide you along the path.

does anyone know of any good websites about the different sects of buddhism and what they beleive?

have you seen the www.buddhanet.net site? they do a very good job of giving a broad overview of both Hinyana and Mahayana Vehicles.

if you are interested in something more specific, you can check out this site for a good view of the Vajrayana:

http://www.lamayeshe.com/

and:

http://www.khandro.net/Buddhism_toc.htm

hope these help!

metta,

~v

[Asanga]

i know that buddhism is a very personal religion and there is no one set way in reaching enlightenment, but this is telling me not to do anything. my personal opinion is that buddha gave us a path that lead him to enlightenment, and we should take this advice into consideration but not follow blindly. try it out and if it works, then great.

The Buddha did give us a path or a way. It was a unique way. As best as I can translate for you, it is the way of the medium. When we deeply introspect within ourselves (on a vertical axis) we come to a most mysterious medium. We can call it the 'life-force' 'tathata' (thatness), 'Buddha-nature' or the 'light' (in Pali, dipa). (If you are a Pauline Christian or read the Gospel of Thomas it is best described as the 'phos zoe' (the light of life) which is eternal and different than the 'flesh'.)

When you tap into this light through meditation you will be astonished at the power entering your body. You will realize that it is undying. But this is what you have always had! It is just that now you are seeing it for the first time. This seeing is called Right View. From this, you learn that by clinging to the dependently arisen body, this light is hidden. If fact, the more we attach to the dependently arisen body, in proportion, the light recedes.

From witnessing this light, the path commences towards expanding this light and becoming fully awakened (buddha).

I hope this helps. I know this all sounds strange, but I am telling you the way it really is.

Blessings,

Asanga