Question about Satan

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by kkawohl

A couple of suggestion:
1. Stop believing in fairy tales.
2. Don't hold your breath waiting for the apocalypse. The 42 months will pass & another 42 centuries will pass & man will still occupy the earth.

I respect you KKawohl, I have read your posts with great interest. I have also been around the block a time or two in my life. And I have learned one thing.

Perception is everything. It doesn't matter what I believe, or what you believe. What people perceive is all that counts. So that means that each individual in this existence has a reality that the rest of us can't even come close to understanding.

That is what makes life amazing. We all have our own little worlds, yet we can function civily together.

You swung, I ducked, you missed. Hope you understand. peace my friend.

v/r

Q

[bananabrain]

hi brian, i just read your article on hell. it's quite good (although, naturally, i have my quibbles, heh)

for a start, the valley of "ben-hinnom", of which "gehenna" is a corruption, via "gehinnom" is still very much visible. in modern-day jerusalem it is a delightful little place just outside the walls of the old city and the "dung gate", nowadays known as "sultan's pool". not without irony, it is a top venue for outdoor rock concerts. it is also known as the valley of "tophet" and its use as a rubbish dump in late antiquity was considered an apt deconsecration of the idolatrous rites once practised on this site, by both the original jebusites and the israelites of the first Temple period. in fact, this is considered to have been a site for molech worship, may its memory be blotted out.

Although baptism, especially with water, was a relatively common ritual in many belief systems, it was not and still is not practised by mainstream Jews.

ahem - although it's not done in the same way, ritual immersion, or "tevilah" is an extremely important part of judaism. this can be done either in a river or open body of water or in a specially constructed pool known as a "mikveh". see this link for details: http://www.jewfaq.org/cgi-bin/search...eywords=mikveh
as water has a ritually "consecrative" effect, the relevant immersion confers a change of status, whether from gentile to jewish, tamei to tahor or unavailable to available, whether involving sex or kitchen utensils. it is mentioned in the Torah on many occasions (mostly in leviticus) and mikva'ot constructed according to talmudic standards have been found, among other places, on masada and excavated in the city of london. "john the baptist", in immersing people in rivers, could arguably be said to have been administering chasidic-style tevilah!

b'shalom

bananabrain

[I, Brian]

Thanks for the input bb - by, you must have been a little bored.

Btw - is there a meaning to the words "Ben-Hinnom" and "gehinnom"?? Or is it essentially an arbitrarily named place rather than a meaningful name?

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally posted by I, Brian
is there a meaning to the words "Ben-Hinnom" and "gehinnom"?? Or is it essentially an arbitrarily named place rather than a meaningful name?

I'm not an expert on this, but I think the words "Ben-Hinnom" refers to a person, a son of a person named Hinnom ("Ben" referring to "son of"). I don't know about "gehinnom" Please correct me if I'm wrong, bb.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[bananabrain]

*grin* bored, brian? well, it is kind of a slow week apart from my album launch...

I'm not an expert on this, but I think the words "Ben-Hinnom" refers to a person, a son of a person named Hinnom ("Ben" referring to "son of"). I don't know about "gehinnom"

a quick google reveals that the missing link is "gei ben hinnom", or "the valley of the son of hinnom", who was a child that was said to have been sacrificed by his father, hinnom, to the idol molech. the child's name, according to tradition, was "nohem", meaning "moaning", referring either to his wails of pain or to the murmurs of the worshippers. either way its link to later concepts of hell is fairly dubious and comes via the church farmers. when the sages speak of sinners "inheriting gehinnom", this is taken to mean a period of 'purification by spiritual fires' or the like before the soul is said to have repented and can 'inherit its portion in the world to come'. this period lasts no longer than 12 months, which is why we say kaddish for that period. thus the most you can say is it has a sort of purgatorial nature.

of course, all of this is aggadah - thus, we are not obliged to hold a particular set of beliefs about it. judaism is rather more concerned with what people get up to while they're alive.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[I, Brian]

Album launch? And you're bored? Oh, right - that means you must be a drummer.

Good luck with that anyway - quite a sharp industry to be working in.

As for the Molech and Nohem background to Gehenna - has this ever been used as a vehicle for metaphor in Jewish tradition at all? I'd hate to sound narrow minded, but there's a strand of the the concept that seems to make my point of conjecture make more sense.

[Postmaster]

Satan which is the universal image of negativity does not create miracles, Satan creates illusions and Greed is what follows illusions.

[mirrorinthefog]

I must say I've heard of people saying that the tsunami was Satan's doing and that seems a bit odd to me. To each her own I suppose.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In answer to your original question, yes, according to scriptures (Christian and some non-christian), Lucifer (angel of light) AKA the devil (little god), aka Satan can perform wonders and miracles. At his height of power and majesty, he was second only to GOD. He was the favored angel, and the most powerful Arch angel in existence. He was the light bearer. Then something happened that turned him away from God. It seems to be around the so called creation of the universe, the local earth and Man.

In any event Satan has the power to perform wonders and miracles, and according to scriptures, will make great display of that ability in the end times, or the times of the apocolypse (allegedly 42 months).

The warning to Christians is to discern what spirit is issuing these great miracles, and not to take them at face value, lest one be deceived by the counterfeiter.

You asked the question, that is my answer.

v/r

Q

I am seeing this pretty much the same way it was explained above.
And this link also shows it about the same way I am seeing it. The devil, satan, lucifer, dragon, god of this world and the other titles he is given.
At the same time Lucifer had to have a thought that he could rise above God and where that thought came from was most likely from God himself. ? .

This link also shows it about the same way I am seeing it. This guy did a nice job in the outline, but I am not saying it is all accurate, but very close.

http://www.cornerstone1.org/create-devil.htm

I also see one of his tricks is to (influence) and get man to believe he is not real and also to (influence) in thought, to believe that God is not real. I have been face to face with the serpant so I know he is real and not just an imagination.

[Marsh]

Originally Posted by Nogodnomasters

This question is for our Christian members.

Can Satan perform miracles? If not why is he a threat. If so, what if any are the limitations of his miracles and why doesn't he perform more for his cause?

Wellllll, human beings can perform miracles, but when humans perform miracles it is not our power that performs them, but the power of God. For example, after Jesus died his apostles performed many miracles, but every time they did they attributed them to God, not to themselves.

Having rebelled against God, I don't think that Satan (and he is quite real) can perform miracles. God works through human beings to perform miracles; though I believe he also works through angels to perform miracles, I don't suspect that he would be too crazy about working through Satan.

At the same time, our book of Revelation portrays the false prophet (whose nature is Satan) calling down fire from heaven, which is a miracle that Elijah performed.

In my personal opinion Satan is able to poison one's mind, and that individual is then able to cause desolation in the lives of others; this is the extent of his power. So I guess I agree with what Postmaster said.

[Basstian]

I would like to shed light on this ....Afraid I cant

I have what I call a gut feeling you might call it a theory dont care what its called I will share it anyway

Satan I believe in as a Christian but I want to define believe. I dont mean have faith in I mean he is out there somewhere seaking whom he can devour.

the Bible forgive me if I use my own words says resist the devil and he will flee from you. Simply put I believe he isnt much of a factor in my life. If I cough I dont pray get thee behind me satan and take the common cold with you. Seems silly to give him that much credit.

But as a young man I wasnt as close to God I strayed into some very strange situations where I was surrounded by people had gone the opposite way they invited evil drew close you might say to the devil I wont go into what I perceive happened but I am still shaken by it in my memory.

I think the devil may have as much power in an individuals life as he allows. I do believe in his power to tempt even the most faithful maybe plant the mental seed that results in sin.

I also notice in the book of Job it seems none of Jobs friends attributated any of Jobs trials with Satan. Although it is clear he was behind them.

I feel Gods protection in my life I see his deliverance in times of trial I feel I am safe no matter who controls the storm.

Peace