Protection of the Qur'an

[Gnostradamus]

Greetings,

In my research I have found that the words of the Qur'an have undergone some changes during and since it's composition on earth.

These changes are quite well documented in Sahih Hadiths, so how does this fit in with the view that the Qur'an is unchanged?

[tarik]

hi !

bring the hadith please !

[Amica]

Hi,
yes I would like to see the hadith as well.

If you have studied translations of the meaning of the Qur'an, it would not be very reliable since as you probably have heard Arabic is difficult to translate. The best way to study the Qur'an and observe whether humans have changed it over the years is to study and understand the Arabic language.

If you are referring to the abrogation (I hope I am spelling this correctly, please forgive me) of the verses, I may have one explanation. The Qur'an has been sent over a period of more than 10 years. During that time the Prophet Muhammad s.a.v.s. and Muslims have went through different times. Each surah referrs to a specific period of time. As you can observe, the Qur'an is like a one long dialogue where God of the Qur'an is conversing with the Prophet himself, answering back to Muslim followers in regards to their concerns, easily introducing them to certain laws that God Almighty wanted them to observe (such as prohibition of alcohol) and also God Almighty is answering back to the enemies of Muslims and the Qur'an.
God/Allah Almighty says that He does not changes each verse/ayat but He provides a smiliar or a better one.

Certain verses of the Qur'an are very clear and some are rather symbolic in nature and are open to human interpretation. In the same way, different interpreters of the meaning of the Holy Qur'an may have different understandings of the more ambigous verses.

I hope this helped. Perhaps some more Islam educated Muslims will tell you better/explain this better than I did (I am fairly a new believer--a born-again, as Christians would say).

Peace.

[mansio]

How can God change His mind in a short book like the Quran (compared to the Bible) and in a short period of 10 years or a little more, which amounts to contradicting Himself.
The simple explanation is that the Word of God has been corrected by its human authors.
In many verses it is stated that the Quran is very easy to understand and you acknowledge that sometimes it is difficult to understand.

[Gnostradamus]

Originally Posted by tarik

hi !

bring the hadith please !

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 57:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet sent seventy men from the tribe of Bani Salim to the tribe of Bani Amir. When they reached there, my maternal uncle said to them, "I will go ahead of you, and if they allow me to convey the message of Allah's Apostle (it will be all right); otherwise you will remain close to me." So he went ahead of them and the pagans granted him security But while he was reporting the message of the Prophet , they beckoned to one of their men who stabbed him to death. My maternal uncle said, "Allah is Greater! By the Lord of the Kaba, I am successful." After that they attached the rest of the party and killed them all except a lame man who went up to the top of the mountain. (Hammam, a sub-narrator said, "I think another man was saved along with him)." Gabriel informed the Prophet that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord, and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite, "Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased " Later on this Quranic Verse was cancelled. The Prophet invoked Allah for forty days to curse the murderers from the tribe of Ral, Dhakwan, Bani Lihyan and Bam Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and his Apostle.

I'm trying to understand why it can be claimed that the Qur'an we have now is the same as it had always been, when verses like the above used to be recited by the companions but can't be found in the Qur'an today.

[Gnostradamus]

By the way, I don't understand why this thread was moved. It clearly doesn't have anything to do with any other religion but Islam, I thought I had posted in the appropriate thread to begin with. Unless my post has been construed to be an attack against Islam, which it isn't since I know for a fact that some sects accept every Hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, and some sects do believe that the Qur'an has changed a little. I'm looking for an exchange of opinions between different sects regarding the reconcilliation of select Sahih Hadiths with the Qur'an.

[Staffy]

The ansser is: If a hadith contradicts the Al-Quran then it is by no doubts 100% false..............Staffy

[smkolins]

Indeed the status of the Qur'an (aka Koran) is the subject of some recent news in the US....

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...2/111726.shtml

[Amica]

Like someone already said, if a Hadith contradicts the Qur'an or has no support from the Holy Book, it means that it is not reliable, that it is false.

Mansio:
The Holy Qur'an is shorter from the Bible because it confirms the truth of the Bible, assumes that it's readers are familiar with the Bible and deals with the society for whom it was reaveled. God teaches Muslims that the Qur'an is final Message and that we, as true Muslims, need to believe in previous Messages, that include the Bible.
Perhaps to you it seems that humans changed the Holy Texts because you only read the Bible (which has gone through many revisions--and which Christian commentators do not hide!) and the interpretation of meaning of the Holy Qur'an.
God can't contradict Himself and never does. Many of the laws in the Qur'an are the same as in the Old Testament. God speach in the Qur'an has never been replicated by a human due to its poetic language that has never been replicated. If a human being changed a verse in the Qur'an, in the Arabic would be very much noted because the Qur'an has a very specific tone to it.
Like I once said, to understand the Qur'an read it and understand it in Arabic, not in English, or any other language--only Arabic.
That is why all Muslims pray only in Arabic because the meaning of Qur'anic verses change in other languages.

[mansio]

Amica

I was refering to the abrogation of verses by other verses in the Quran, which to my opinion is a major tampering with a revealed text.

How is it possible that God would change his mind in a short book as the Quran and a revelation span of 23 years ?

I agree with you that the Bible has gone through many revisions, as I believe all revelations are devised by men.
If a revelation were from God there would be only one revelation, and it would be so perfect that everybody would believe in it.

You think I only read Bible and Quran translations. Yes when I just read. No when I have to study a few verses. I start reading in the original language, then I compare what I have understood with the many translations in the three modern languages I know.

Replication of the Quran seems easy. I've seen several fake suras in the internet.

You have a very bad opinion of translations. As few Muslims master literary Arabic, I wonder how they can understand the Quran if they do not use translations. God says in the Quran that his words are in clear Arabic.

I know the real reason for depreciating translations. When a translation brings to the fore an embarrassing meaning of a verse then immediately Muslims put forward a so-called mistranslation.