Predestination

[Amatullah]

Salam (Peace)

I quote Br. AbdulHamid from another thread:

7) To believe that God ordained all things before they happened, and that nothing happens except as He ordains it.

According to him and many other Muslims, the belief in predestination of good and evil is a major belief in Islam. I find it very hard to accept this because it negates free-will and puts the Justice of God into question. For instance, if God has already decreed that I am to enter Hell in the Hereafter then what is the purpose of the trial in this world? I accept that He Knows the final outcome because yes He is All-Knowing and there is nothing outside of His Knowledge because His Knowledge is Infinite. But to say that He has decreed the final outcome, where is the logic in that? How does it make sense and how do we reconcile it with God's Infinite Justice?

Looking forward to hearing your views.

Peace

Amatullah

[Friend]

Salaamu Alyckum

Amatullah .The submission to Allah means to put your trust and faith in Allah and accept every thing happened to you good or bad , because your final result of your life Exam will be in the Eternity life (Al Akerah ).

we must accept his orders like our age our suffering our level of life I mean rich or poor ....each one have his own life Exam maybe he will pass it or not . (I'm sure ,if you search you will find each one has his own exam ) .

I know you are knew that people are free to choose or undertake their path in this life ...at the same time the knowledge of Allah who create the people and everything is include the result of each one trip in this life , how he will act and react ,his behaviour and decisions from the beginning of his life until his death....every thing was wrote in each one book , Allah who created us know about each one from the beginning of the life in this earth .


This is my point of view

[Amatullah]

Salam (Peace)

Thanks for your response Br. Friend.

I do accept that all the hardships and sufferings we are faced with come from God and are part of this trial. What I meant was that if we are to believe that God has already ordained the result or the outcome of our test (ie. He has already decided whether we should be successful or unsuccessful) then this test is not only meaningless but unjust because that belief implies that say, if a man does wrong he does so not out of free-will but because he has been made to do so by God. Like I said earlier, I do believe that God already KNOWS the result of our test on this earth but I believe that to some extent we have control over what our ultimate destiny (ie. hell or paradise) is because after all we have been given the ability to choose between right and wrong.

Amatullah

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Amatullah

Salam (Peace)

Thanks for your response Br. Friend.

I do accept that all the hardships and sufferings we are faced with come from God and are part of this trial. What I meant was that if we are to believe that God has already ordained the result or the outcome of our test (ie. He has already decided whether we should be successful or unsuccessful) then this test is not only meaningless but unjust because that belief implies that say, if a man does wrong he does so not out of free-will but because he has been made to do so by God. Like I said earlier, I do believe that God already KNOWS the result of our test on this earth but I believe that to some extent we have control over what our ultimate destiny (ie. hell or paradise) is because after all we have been given the ability to choose between right and wrong.

Amatullah

Salam brother,
it is obvious that God is never unjust and thus, it is our understanding that is lacking. This topic is something that is not easy for people to grasp. But know that there are certains things in one's life that are ordained to happen but how we react to them is our own free will to do and there are other certain things about which we have no control over like when we will die. God has preordained our time of death and we have no power over this. This simple fact is actually the main reason a muslim doesnt fear death. The fact that God knows whether we will end up in Hell or heaven does not in any way impede free will. anyway, i suggest a book to read. If you cannot find one, i suggest the following one which u can download as well. Please see the following link.
http://www.islambasics.com/index.php...ID=3060&page=1
This website has many many nice books. There is also another one entitled 'The Unseen' which is a good one. I dont claim that this will answer all your questions... maybe it will create more in your mind, but it is better than nothing.
Hope this helps.
And Allah knows best.

[Amatullah]

Salam (Peace)

Again I repeat that I do accept that we have no power over certain things like what family we are to be born into or where it is that we will die, and all of that and more is determined solely by God (Glory be to Him). But when we say that everything that happens, happens in accordance with His Will, does that not include our actions? We have the ability to choose because He Willed for us to have it but aren't our choices (between good and evil) solely OUR choices?

The way I see it with regards to our actions there are only three possibilities:

1) We do what we do because Allah Wills for us to do them in which case He cannot punish us for our wrong because that would negate His Justice.

2) We do what we do because both we and God Will it in which case He will have to have a share in the punishment for our wrong because He is our partner in crime.

3) We do what we do solely because we will to do it in which case He has every right to punish us for our wrong because He provided us with an intellect and guidance.

For obvious reasons, the first two possibilities are illogical and absurd. I realize that this topic is complicated but I assumed that Muslims who accept this belief (in predestination) understood it.

Br. Thipps thanks for referring me to the book. I will try reading it after my exams.

Amatullah

[Alecia]

Is it possible that all things are predestined by God based on our own free will choices? This is a theory I've been working on. It is based primarily on my own prayers and not any recognized sources of authority, so I welcome outside input.

I believe God gave us free will so that we could CHOOSE to love him and enter into a close relationship with him. At the same time, I believe all things come from God and that nothing happens on this earth that has not been allowed and sometimes directed by God. These two statements may appear to be in direct conflict, but bear with me a moment.

Imagine a roadmap of an infinite number of highly interconnected pathways (possibly something like what the neural connections in the human brain would look like if they were mapped out). This is our destiny as predetermined by God. It has all been mapped out for us; however, each place on the map where two pathways interconnect represents a point at which we are free to make a choice. Which of the predestined paths we actually follow is based on our own free will, and yet nothing is left to chance. We do not walk all of the paths that have been laid out for us, but they were there and available to us to choose.



I believe the ancient texts of the world's major religions present concepts of both free will and predestination because both are equally true. I believe free will is the proof that God created us in his image - no other living creature is endowed with the knowledge of good and evil and the ability to choose between the two. At the same time, I believe God loves us too much to leave it all up to us. I believe his purpose for us is to teach us to know and love him and that all experiences - even the worst ones - can lead us into a closer relationship with Him, if we let them.

[Amica]

Selam,
I think that God Knows all that is going to happen, that is happening and that was. I believe both in predestination and free will as given by God The Merciful. The way I see this is as follows:
1) God Almighty may have predestined things that have passed and are to come. All the events that I did and will encounter, everything that is happening in my life that I have to face. In mind mind, this is a huge picture of things. Just like when a student is working in an exam, in the beginning he is working maybe on the forth question, but on the other page, there are other questions to encounter, think about and answer.
2) My free will in life as given by God Almighty will make me choose things in each situation God the Compassionate has had me to face, is making me to face and that I will face. With His guidance through the teachings of good and evil, it is up to me to try and make the best choices. I believe God Almighty can make me go in a certain direction if He so wishes, but He gave us free will for a reason that we may not yet understand. So, just like a student working on the exam that I mentioned above, I will answer each question on both pages of the test in accordance of how well I studied and how hard I am trying to answer the questions correctly.

That is how I understand the predestination and free will. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe someone has a better explanation.