Power of Magick?

[I, Brian]

I like bruce's comment - never thought of that.

Bill does certainly make an important point about the effect it could have in actually winning that ticket, though. I have it strongly in my head that my particular currents on life's stream will not allow such an event for myself - as if there are certain character-building traits I must develop, that cannot occur with too easy a life.

HOWEVER, on saying that, some people may indeed be aware that their life current is heading towards such a win. My dad used to often mention that we'd do a certain thing "when we win the pools" - the pools being like a form of sports lottery we had here in the UK before Lotto. And he always used to say it in such a way that "when" seemed like an inevitability. And do you know what...

...he was right, as well. £1.3 million to a syndicate of 6 in 1995, that included my mum and grandad as well. All gone now, my parents divorced, and my grandad about to use his share to bury himself and put my nana in a home for a good few years.

I feel constantly aware of a sense of my own future - or is it possible future? There are certain things I tell my own children, about a very comfortable financial future we have. There's a strong sense of certainty. It's hard to communicate the accompanying sense of destiny. And it's very much because of that, that I personally have such a hard time accepting any real significant reference to magic changing reality. That would imply that I have 'no destiny', and there's too much here pointing against that. Not an assured destiny, mind you - I could sit on my arse and live a miserable life. There is room for choice, but it's a choice of current, not river. Magic seems to imply being able to change the course of those rivers, and that seems such an odd idea - like moving mountains.

Anyway...I did actually dream once of a winning lottery number. Was supposed to be worth around £30 million after a triple roll-over. Perhaps it's for some future event - but if so, I think I'm supposed to give it all away. Funny - sometime's I feel I know aspects of my own future - but the possibilities are intriging. The future as a mystery is very satisfying - those moments when I thought it most predicatble, life become most boring.

And, anyway, I don't trust dreams.

Hm...a late ramble. Goodnight.

[Quahom1]

I think magic/magick/magik is very real on several planes.
There is the affecting the thoughts of another or self (mental)
There is the affecting the surroundings within this plane of existence (physical)
There is the affecting the life of another or self (spiritual)

To those who play with Oija boards for example, with no training, and no concept of potential consequence, magik can be very dangerous (sort of like giving the keys to a child of three and placing them behind the wheel of a semi).

Magic/k is stepping into the lost science/art of Alchemy (there is strong evidence for this pseudo scientific practice, even in western holy books). And like any lost art, time, caution, and practice are required before presenting it to the world (there are many many rules that have been forgotten, concerning the craft).

I for example, brought up in a Celtic Christian sea faring family, view magic/k not as a ruse, or as devil work, but as a sudden low pressure atmospheric condition, or a sea quake that can suddenly take still waters and send them into tidalwaves.

My grandfather explained it to me this way. "Every man, woman and child has the power of the Sun (star), contained within. Properly channeled and guided, that power can positively affect the entire Universe...but without guidance, or proper channeling, you have an atomic bomb.

We think we are in control, until we are not. And there is no warning before our loss of control occurs, and no time to defend against the forces unleashed.

We don't remember the rules.

We are in the image and likeness of God (and I presume have some of the power because of that), but we do not know all the rules.

In my family, the potential for magic/k is strong within the women. The ability of discernment has been graced to the men. The men never tell the women NO, only "What are you willing to sacrifice in the process of figuring this out? And can you live with the results the rest of your life?"

I'm not talking kitchen witchery here.

If I were one who wished to "figure out" magic/k, I would form a religious system, much like the Roman/Orthodox Churches, complete with monastaries, rectories, and convents. I would separate the women from the men, and have them both swear to celibacy, poverty, and seclusion from the general populace. Not as punishment, but rather for removing all distractions from their minds, hearts and bodies, thus allowing them to "grow" in mastery of their faith.

How long would it take??? Don't know, it's been two thousand years, and the major churches still don't have it right...

[Nogodnomasters]

" I think magic/magick/magik is very real on several planes.
There is the affecting the thoughts of another or self (mental)
There is the affecting the surroundings within this plane of existence (physical)
There is the affecting the life of another or self (spiritual)

To those who play with Oija boards for example, with no training, and no concept of potential consequence, magik can be very dangerous (sort of like giving the keys to a child of three and placing them behind the wheel of a semi)."





It is Ouija board <admin snip>, not oija unless that is the British spelling.

What is with the Magick spelling? It reminds me of a King of the Hill episode where young Bobby gets involved with a group of yound warlocks. Bobby tells his Dad he is going out to play "cards" with the guys. Hank, his Dad who was a deep fear his son may be homosexual thinks this is great not knowing they were actually tarot cards he was "playing" with.

A pimply faced kid who worked at the video store introduced Bobby into the group or cult or coven. He was a grandmaster 22nd level wizard or something and claimed he performed "magick" carefully explaining that was "magick spelled m-a-g-i-c-k and not m-a-g-i-c" as if it made any difference. The fact the kid was then told to mop the floors only added to the idea that those who claim to have magical powers-don't.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste ngnm,

magik with a "k" was coined by Aleister Crowley to distinguish his "magik" from the simple side show illusions that were called "magic".

i'm sure that we have some posters that can fill out this bit of information for you, should you so choose.

[Quahom1]

"It is Ouija board Oh little inexperinced grasshopper, not oija unless that is the British spelling...."



My bad, I was typing too fast. Infact OUIJA comes from putting two words together. OUI (French for yes) and JA (German for yes).

And I disagree about those not having magic. Everyone has the potential, just not everyone tries to develop it.

As far as the spelling Magick, I read that from a Wiccan named Amber K, who stated the "k" in magick was added to show the difference between stage tricks and using natural forces to effect willed change, often changes in our own perceptions or consciousness.

She also states that misusing magick can bring penalties far greater than the consequences of the misuse on the material plane.

Once again, I apologize for the misspelling.

[I, Brian]

My apologies, Quahom1 - the comment from NGNM shouldn't have got through.

[Quahom1]

I, Brian and NGNM,

No worries mates. No harm, no foul.

v/r

Q

[Nogodnomasters]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I, Brian and NGNM,

No worries mates. No harm, no foul.

v/r

Q

I am just glad to see you didn't take my post as seriously as Brian.

[Quahom1]

I did take your post seriously my friend...That is why I answered as I did. I just knew there was no offense meant.

I don't know everything, and will never claim to. I would expect to be put to rights, if I am out of line, or off kiltre, just like the next guy who wants to know all, yesterday.

I have my expertise, and everyone else has theirs. That is what make's life fantastic in its variety.

I, Brian...I do have a very thick skin. However, I appreciate that you are vigilant in your endeavors to ensure clean posts. Rest assured I found nothing offensive about anything posted in response to my thoughts.

In many ways I am a "young grasshopper"

[I, Brian]

At the end of the day, it's very hard to read tone into the written word. Where members have experience of interacting with each other, they can make a fairly decent judgement of the other's intentions. However, for newer members it means it can become far too easy for miscommunication to occur - and offence be taken.

Sometimes Nogodnomasters uses a sharp wit that I fear can cut unintentionally.

[Quahom1]

understood

[Windchange]

Originally Posted by WHKeith

Speaking here as a Wiccan writing a book on quantum physics. . . .

We've long assumed a correlation between the verifiable and measureable magnetic field generated by the human body and/or the generation of brain waves, and psychic phenomenon such as telepathy, precognition, and miraculous healing. Studies into these effects, however, show that whatever is going on--and something clearly IS going on--it has nothing to do with us sending or receiving electromagnetic waves as though we were living radios.

Two studies come to mind.

First, researchers studying remote viewing, a kind of clairvoyance that allows a person to “see” places far away, found in the ‘80s that images could be mentally transmitted to viewers inside a submarine operating at a depth of 170 meters and at a range of 300 kilometers. The tests were successful, indicating that the signal could not be blocked by water, an excellent shield for electromagnetic radiation. Even ELF—Extremely Low Frequency—waves cannot penetrate over five hundred feet of water. Whatever is being transmitted is somehow going past the shielding, not through it. This seemingly nonsensical state of affairs can be understood if we look at it as a nonlocal phenomenon—an effect predicted in Bell’s Theorem and referred to by Einstein as “spooky action at a distance,” the topic of another thread.

Studies performed at the University of Mexico in 1994 proved beyond doubt the nonlocal interconnectivity between human brains. There, neurophysiologist Jacobo Grinberg-Zylberbaum had test subjects meditate together for twenty minutes, then enter separate special rooms—called faraday chambers—which are screened against all electromagnetic signals. One subject was shown a series of light flashes, and the EEG responses of both subjects' brains recorded.

In about twenty-five percent of the cases, the brain of the other subject showed the same responses at precisely the same times, just as though he, too, had been exposed to the flashing light. The patterns of brainwaves in one individual can be transmitted to the brain of another, apparently without passing through the intervening space.

This seems to suggest that, while our EM and brainwave activity are indeed connected to whatever passes between individuals, what ACTUALLY passes is not EM in nature, but a nonlocal quantum effect.

As for changing aspects of the physical universe, Brian, my belief is that that has nothing to do with EM phenomenon, but with the quantum nature of reality--collapsing probability waves through measurement or observation. Again, this would be nonlocal in nature, and not require the transmission of data or energy in the classical sense.

A kindred spirit!!! Hope you are having more luck reconciling the two structures than I.
What we are talking about here is the EPR Paradox where Einstein and compatriots were aruging against the "incomplete" structure of quantum mechanics. It works like this: for every particle/wave there is also a reciprocal particle/wave. If you were to change an attribute of one then the other must also change in nature. But this would have to happen instantaneously (sp? sorry...) denoting some form of superluminal communications. So far we have not been able to prove or disprove that the twinned particle/wave changes when the measured one is altered.
So how does this tie into magickal theory?
According to the quantum viewpoint nothing actually exists as we percieve it. Everything around us is the result of infinestimally small and quick interactions between probability feilds. One school of thought states that there is a new universe created with every interaction and that all possible permutations of probability come into existence. But you are only allowed to experience one of these. Perhaps since it is the observer who is experiencing is a singular entity (sp again, big sigh...) when you practice a form of meta-thought you are able to put your finger on the wheel, not enough to control it utterly, but enough to get closer to where you will to be?

[Susma Rio Sep]

I have never engaged in any Ouija Board session with others or by myself, if that is also done.

Honestly speaking I am afraid of the practice. And even though I call myself a postgraduate Catholic, I still take seriously the Catholic Church's proscription against all such practices like Ouija Board and seances.

Why am I afraid? Am I not a person of reason in the sense I don't give any worth to superstitious observances?

You see, it's one thing to be reasonable in not giving worth to superstitious beliefs and engagements, and another not to feel a chill in the midst of circumstances where people are already accustomed to be afraid. Ouija Board and seances are two examples of the Catholic Church's teachings on the insidious presence of unclean spirits.

Knowledge does not always bring about the consentaneous feeling and body mood. For example, I know that in the cemetery there are only people definitely dead, cadavers long ago buried; but at night I still feel dread to pass through a cemetery by myself, although knowing that dead bodies can't do any so much as mischievous tricks to scare me.

I understand that there are posters here who hold to the view and even conviction that Ouija board and seances have nothing to do with unclean spirits, not the kind understood by the Catholic Church. They resort to psychic forces for explanations.

Those who engage in Ouija boards, I wonder if they have this kind of an experience which I heard from people who had taken part in the practice.

Four persons were using the Ouija Board to find the answer to the question, whether the deceased father of one of them was in heaven or in hell. They placed their fingers lightly on the planchette which moved first to the letter "h", then "e", then "l" and finally another "l", spelling out "hell". So the group was horrified, and the companion whose father was the subject of the question was devastated.

But the devastated companion went to another Ouija board session with complete strangers who did not know anything about her previous session, and this time she got the answer "heaven". So she got wise and decided to stop there, and totally abandon all such practices.

My conclusion: the Catholic Church is a very wise mother to prohibit all such experimentations with so-called occult forces. I know that Protestant churches are also very stern against all such practices.

Susma Rio Sep

[Johanna]

In my opinion, Ouija boards are silly. Seems like a perfect way to spend a rainy afternoon, at best invoking some tricky spirits who want to play jokes on you.

I think it's a bit stupid to assume that you can sit down and contact dead people, or such, who conveniently use the western alphabet and, usually, English. It's naive to then think that whatever you get out of a Ouija board is the truth.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Johanna

In my opinion, Ouija boards are silly. Seems like a perfect way to spend a rainy afternoon, at best invoking some tricky spirits who want to play jokes on you.

I think it's a bit stupid to assume that you can sit down and contact dead people, or such, who conveniently use the western alphabet and, usually, English. It's naive to then think that whatever you get out of a Ouija board is the truth.

That's very good, Johan; but I would even go further to avoid Ouija even as a game for any rainy afternoon. Write posts instead to internet forums.

About contact with the dead, Dr. Susma says:

Getting in contact with live people is already difficult as it is, and often impossible; so let's just leave the dead in peace by themselves.

Susma Rio Sep