Posting on Sabbath

[Prober]

Do you or would you post on Sabbath?

I'm on this site on Sabbath to discuss religious topics, thinking that's okay, but I don't notice any activity on this board.

Would discussing the Torah online be a sabbathy thing to do?

Thinking of Dauer's "psycho-halachic" thread...

[InLove]

Hey Prober and All--

This seems like a good place for me to pop in and say something about my posts on the music lyrics thread. There for a while, I was being silly, posting two songs on a Saturday morning and all the while chattering on and on about "two for one on Saturdays". After a while, I realized that this was probably not all that cute in the eyes of our Jewish contributors. I hope that it was not offensive and only caused a slight sigh and shaking of the head, followed by something like "Sheesh, silly woman" and a smile. Or maybe it went unnoticed, and so I have gone and brought attention to it. Or maybe it didn't matter one way or the other. But I just thought that while Prober was waiting on a response, I'd go ahead and add this.

Open mouth, insert foot. That's what I tend to say when my foot is not in my mouth.

InPeace,
InLove

[dauer]

Hey Proper.

Do you or would you post on Sabbath?

I don't post on Shabbos, or do any gaming or anything like that, but I do use skype sometimes to stay in touch with my girlfriend when we're not together. For me it's a matter of disconnecting from those things that I habitually do that get more into the realm of doing than being.

I'm on this site on Sabbath to discuss religious topics, thinking that's okay, but I don't notice any activity on this board.

Would discussing the Torah online be a sabbathy thing to do?

Thinking of Dauer's "psycho-halachic" thread...

From my perspective, discussing Torah online could be a Shabbosy thing to do, because working from a psycho-halachic perspective, everything isn't black and white. You'd have to examine the issues, including traditional ones as well as others (e.g. another forum for Torah discussion, possibly helping others to discuss Torah on Shabbos when they would not otherwise be able) and also might want to include some type of spiritual practice on it be it some type of prayer, meditation, shamanic journeying, consulting i ching, astro chart, or tarot, automatic writing, or some other method that helps you to connect to God, and from there figure out what's the right way for you to go about things. But at that point one would also need to determine boundaries. At some point you have to be able to say, "This is what is okay for me on Shabbos, but this is the stuff that I won't do." and then follow through with that. That's at least my take on it all.

Dauer

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hey Prober and All--

This seems like a good place for me to pop in and say something about my posts on the music lyrics thread. There for a while, I was being silly, posting two songs on a Saturday morning and all the while chattering on and on about "two for one on Saturdays". After a while, I realized that this was probably not all that cute in the eyes of our Jewish contributors. I hope that it was not offensive and only caused a slight sigh and shaking of the head, followed by something like "Sheesh, silly woman" and a smile. Or maybe it went unnoticed, and so I have gone and brought attention to it. Or maybe it didn't matter one way or the other. But I just thought that while Prober was waiting on a response, I'd go ahead and add this.

Open mouth, insert foot. That's what I tend to say when my foot is not in my mouth.

InPeace,
InLove

IL,

You aren't held to the same rules/regulations as we are (unless you're Jewish and haven't let us know about it. ) In fact, there are many "Shabbos goy" (non-Jewish people who work on the Sabbath for Jewish people who need them.)

I have a couple of friends who act as my "Shabbos goy" even though they do it because we're friends (or, perhaps my cooking/baking. )


Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Prober]

Thanks all. I appreciate your comments.

And yeah, Dauer, I think you've got to make boundries.

Best Regards,
Mark

[bananabrain]

i don't post on Shabbat - the computer goes off - nor do i watch tv, answer the phone, drive or cook, among other things. it's rather nice actually because you don't have to deal with any of that stuff for 25 hours a week as opposed to the "always-on" environment.

i've never liked the idea of the "shabbos goy" so i try to avoid it wherever possible, but it is necessary on some occasions, for example, if you're in a hotel and the key to your room is a card that operates an electric lock, then you have to ask a hotel employee to open your room for you. it's amazing what you can do with timeswitches however.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

i've never liked the idea of the "shabbos goy" so i try to avoid it wherever possible, but it is necessary on some occasions, for example, if you're in a hotel and the key to your room is a card that operates an electric lock, then you have to ask a hotel employee to open your room for you. it's amazing what you can do with timeswitches however.

b'shalom

bananabrain

I had to use Shabbos goy when I injured my ankles (I couldn't do anything for a couple of weeks without help), plus I know of quite a few people/places that use them (the Jewish home near my apartment is staffed with them on the weekend, plus there are a couple of rabbis that have them due to infirmity.)

I don't like to use them for minor things (like the unlocking the hotel door example you gave) but things like helping to care for someone who needs assistance, then they're a "necessary evil" (for lack of a better phrase.)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Prober]

Seems like the shabbos goy thing is a bit like cheating. How would it be justified in the light of Exodus 20:10? Or is the "goy" in this case not your manservant or maidservant? (Just asking, not judging)

Anyway, I don't watch TV, try to only warm things up versus cook and try not to do any unnecessary work.

I will use electricity, drive and post (religious themes only).

And, yes BB, I love the break from the workweek hustle. It's a time thing.

Best regards,
Mark

[InLove]

Hey Phyl--thanks for your comment. (No linguine lashes for me today--yay!) I know the same rules don't apply to me, but I just wanted to offer an apology for my thoughtless chatter. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is not a great excuse to run amuck in the common courtyard we share. I realize that it is probably no big deal to you guys, but I felt kind of bad about it when I realized what I had inadvertantly done. So, 'nuff said, I hope. I just wanted you to know. Love you all.

InPeace,
InLove

Edit: P.S. LOL, can't help myself--anyone needing a song posted on Saturday mornings, I'm at your disposal.

[bananabrain]

to some people it might look like cheating. it's really an application of the principle that Torah is not supposed to make your life difficult: "and you shall live by them" (leviticus 18:5) to which the sages respond: "live by them, not die by them" (BT Yoma 85b), meaning that they should be enablers rather than disablers. with that said, it is better not to rely on non-jews for one's Shabbat observance: suppose everyone wanted to keep Shabbat one day? hence labour-saving devices rather than people. prober - someone who isn't your employee or servant or pet or domestic animal is not covered by these rules because you are not in a position of responsibility towards them. if you are responsible for someone, they are entitled to the protection of these laws, or, to be exact, you are obliged to ensure that these safeguards are in place. of course, in the case of, say, private carers without whom your personal safety and quality of life (and observance of Shabbat) as in phyllis' case, the same rules ensure a loophole.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Prober]

Thanks, BB.

I appreciate your post.

I also believe Sabbath (and the law in general) isn't supposed to be oppresive.

And thanks for explaining about the manservant (et al) thing.

Best regards,
Mark

[Susanna]

Originally Posted by Prober

Do you or would you post on Sabbath?

I'm on this site on Sabbath to discuss religious topics, thinking that's okay, but I don't notice any activity on this board.

Would discussing the Torah online be a sabbathy thing to do?

Thinking of Dauer's "psycho-halachic" thread...

Hi Prober,

In answer to your first question, no, I do not post on Shabbat, I do not put my computer on, after Synagogue service, I spend the rest of the time in total rest and then, when Shabbat ends, I do my usual household chores.

Most of us Jews who are observant will not be on our computers on Shabbat, so this is why you might have difficulty in finding someone to interact with on this site, but there are probably other sites in which Torah study is done online interactively, especially if you live so far from the Jewish community that you can't make regular trips to Shul. If I can't make the trip on Shabbat for the morning service, I will spend the day in what I would call, my "home Shabbat service".

[dauer]

Most of us Jews who are observant will not be on our computers on Shabbat,

I suppose it depends by whose yardstick you determine someone to be observant.

[Susanna]

Originally Posted by dauer

I suppose it depends by whose yardstick you determine someone to be observant.

My statement to Prober, is in answer to why there is very little activity on this site over Shabbat, nothing to do with measuring anybody else's yardstick. I observe Shabbat and by reading your post, I believe that you do aswell, others do not, it is entirely up to the individual what they do, but when someone wants to know why a Judaism discussion forum has hardly anyone around during Shabbat, my answer can only be that of, those who are observant of Shabbat, will not work, generate electricity etc, so would not be using their computer.

[wil]

Knowing what little I know, it appears most Jews I know consider themselves observant...in their degree.

Although the Orthodox don't consider the Conservative observant who don't consider the Reformed observant who don't consider the Reconstructionist observant who don't consider the Renewal observant...but even the liberal Rabbi will discuss ways to be more observant...

Most of my friends who are performers find themselves on stage on Saturdays...and I do know an Orthodox who showed up to teach after his morning prayers (workshop on comedia del'arte) each in their way.