Pluralism and Islam

[Vimalakirti]

Here's a tidy summary of the many sides to the debate on the relationship between pluralism and Islam: http://www.islamuswest.org/IslamAndElections_06.html

I put it here because I think it's important for everyone to see.

Also, I would like to make a plea. This forum at present appears to be woefully under-represented from the Muslim side, and with all respect it's particularly under-represented in terms of the thoughtful and nuanced Islamic opinion I know is out there. Instead, I've seen too much prosletyzing and frankly very little serious or informed discussion.

SO I'M CALLING ON ALL MUSLIMS OUT THERE TO PLEASE USE THIS FORUM TO TALK TO ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE USEFUL FOR YOU, HELP INFORM THE REST OF US, AND IN THE END MAY EVEN WIN YOU CONVERTS (IF YOU REFRAIN FROM PROSLETYZING).

With best wishes.

[brucegdc]

Originally Posted by Vimalakirti

Also, I would like to make a plea. This forum at present appears to be woefully under-represented from the Muslim side, and with all respect it's particularly under-represented in terms of the thoughtful and nuanced Islamic opinion I know is out there. Instead, I've seen too much prosletyzing and frankly very little serious or informed discussion.

On the contrary, there is a very active Islamic section, and a broad range of posters there specifically on Islam, many of whom are also active in the other areas. Unless you're intending to deride your fellow members as unserious or uninformed? You probably want to think about what & how you're saying that.....

[THUNK]

Originally Posted by Vimalakirti

Here's a tidy summary of the many sides to the debate on the relationship between pluralism and Islam: http://www.islamuswest.org/IslamAndElections_06.html

I put it here because I think it's important for everyone to see.

Also, I would like to make a plea. This forum at present appears to be woefully under-represented from the Muslim side, and with all respect it's particularly under-represented in terms of the thoughtful and nuanced Islamic opinion I know is out there. Instead, I've seen too much prosletyzing and frankly very little serious or informed discussion.

SO I'M CALLING ON ALL MUSLIMS OUT THERE TO PLEASE USE THIS FORUM TO TALK TO ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE USEFUL FOR YOU, HELP INFORM THE REST OF US, AND IN THE END MAY EVEN WIN YOU CONVERTS (IF YOU REFRAIN FROM PROSLETYZING).

With best wishes.

Can you help me on this one;

Here in the UK Muslims are very robstly dealt with by thier own community if a good Muslim daughter was to take a white or black lover, indeed the usual outcome would be complete ostricisation and parents breaking all contact with thier hitherto cherished and loved little one. Although other races mix, on the whole Muslim Asians almost never take a lover from another ethnic grouping.

This is not the exception but the rule.

What would God make of such behavior?

[path_of_one]

I could be totally off, Thunk, but I wonder...

1. It could be a cultural, and not religious, thing. Many Asian-Americans strongly prefer their children marry within their ethnic group- not just to other Asian-Americans, but Koreans to Koreans, etc. It has a lot to do with preserving culture and language, and also the history of conflict between Asian cultures.

2. I don't know if it's the same with Islam, but in Christianity and Judaism there is the preference to marry others of the same religion. We have the phrase that people should not be "unequally yoked." Now, that isn't to say that God necessarily has a problem with it, though some think that He does. (I don't.) But it is, in general, sound marital advice. Religion tends to be a big component of any devout person's life, and inter-religious marriages come with difficulties, from how to plan the wedding to how to raise the children. You have to realize that in a devout person's life, much of their daily life will deal with religion, not just going to a meeting once a week. Orthodox Jews will have dietary laws, Muslims will fast during Ramadan and pray five times per day. Many Catholics will be concerned with Mass and confession, and will fast during Lent. So it's not as simple as just heading off to different worship places once a week and ignoring one's differences the rest of the time. Conservative and orthodox people in all religious communities tend to encourage marriage to others in the community, both to ensure more chance of happiness in the marriage and to preserve the community from slow assimilation, a constant threat to minority groups.

If there aren't a bunch of white or black Muslims in your area, my guess is that there just aren't a whole lot of suitable marriage partners outside their own ethic group. Or they may also want to preserve their culture and ethnicity and so encourage members to marry within the community. Additionally, if a lot of their social life revolves around their own community, and especially if they have their own part of town, naturally young adults will end up marrying in the community at a higher rate.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Vimalakirti

Also, I would like to make a plea. This forum at present appears to be woefully under-represented from the Muslim side, and with all respect it's particularly under-represented in terms of the thoughtful and nuanced Islamic opinion I know is out there. Instead, I've seen too much prosletyzing and frankly very little serious or informed discussion.

Hi Vimalakirti - I think you could benefit from visiting the Islam board, where the Muslims at CR seem to be especially happy to answer genuine questions and queries on Islam and Islamic topics.

[Vimalakirti]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Hi Vimalakirti - I think you could benefit from visiting the Islam board, where the Muslims at CR seem to be especially happy to answer genuine questions and queries on Islam and Islamic topics.

I appreciate your concern Brian. But I was responding to my disappointment with some recent (non) replies, and the tenor of much of what we were recently getting from this side. So obviously I wasn't summing up everything you've been getting for however many years you've been doing this. I apologize if that's the impression I left, but my aim was only to stimulate discussion.

But it's kind of a mug's game, deciding on what is within bounds and what is not. I'm not saying that I've always hit the right tone, but I think these judgements are far more art than science, despite any code. I've seen stuff that I consider pretty offensive and very much personal attacks easily past muster, while I've been called out for what is to my mind much more minor slips. My conclusion? The aim of many members here is to defend some particular metaphysical position; my aim is mostly to question such positions and point out their dangers. That's what puts me sometimes beyond the pale for some. I've only been around this long because there are some other members who happen to be far more open & like-minded - and you know who you are! (Thank you all for some great & informative discussions.)

Anyway, you won't have old V. to kick around much longer! I've been looking for a dignified exit for some time. And thanks Brian, you have my vote as one doing an excellent job.

Cheers.

[dayaa]

hi vimalakirti

if what you are looking for is a muslim on the comparative/belief and spirituality board....you've got one i've been here for some time....maybe you just didn't realise i'm muslim. i have a pretty reasonable knowledge in islam although i'm no expert....if you want specifics you would be better off on islam boards....but if you want open minded discussion, i do open minded discussion

[dayaa]

hi thunk

ok....first of all, muslims don't do "lovers" in the western sense of the word. we do "marriage". sex outside of marriage is strictly no go in the muslim community.
that doesn't mean that all muslims have arranged marriages...some do marry after meeting someone and falling in love. for the muslim, ethnicity is of very little concern. muslim people are, in general, extremely non-racist. the question of black, white, pink or green doesn't come into it. the islamic ruling is that a muslim man can marry from people of the book (that is jews and christians) but they have to respect the wife's religion. the muslim girl is only allowed to marry within the muslim community, because other religions do not specifically protect her right to maintain her beliefs as the islam does for non-muslim wives. i know plenty of muslim men married to european or other girls some of which have become muslim, others not. i also know of several muslim girls who have married english men (after they have become muslim).
as path explained above, in general ,marriages work better if the two understand each other. cultural differences can be an obstacle to understanding (not only religious differences) and there is a high rate of problems in cross cultural marriage.
i hope this answers the question