Past Lives

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

First of all, zdrastvuitsye, hola, shalom, salaam, Dia dhuit, hej, namastar ji, konbanwa, squeak, meow, :wave: to Rev. LKKP.

Second of all, I really don't know if I believe in reincarnation or not. I've had some eerie experiences and I've also come across a few "breakfast cereals" if you know what I mean. One "breakfast cereal" incident was when I went to check out some crystals at a local metaphysical crystal shop here in Milwaukee and the lady behind the counter said that she recognized me as a fellow Limurian (sp?). Needless to say, I kinda took her statement with a grain of salt. On the other hand, one eerie incident I had was when I first encountered this one instructor (even before I knew his name) and the two of us "recognized" each other. A few weeks later, when the two of us had quite a bit of time alone together before class, we chatted about cabbages and kings and the like when HE brought up the recognition. Alas, our long conversation on that topic was brought up short when some of the other members of the class entered the room (an hour later.)

Needless to say, I'm going to try and sign up for next semester's offering of his class (again.) I'm hoping that it won't be cancelled (again ).

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[Rev. LKKP]

Thanks Fool and Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine for the wonderful welcome :-)

And you should definitely check out the class again - sounds to me like you are both approaching this carefully, as one must with all the 'Walking Cereal Boxes' out there LOL

Lin

[Zazen]

well, seems like people sure have alot to say about reincarnation heheheh

ummm imho the subject is really just on a mass scale misunderstood, exploited and ignored or rejected

the karmic cycle is one that if you really wanna study, takes awhile to fully comprehend and really i dont think its neccesary for a spiritual aspirant, because it is basically made clear in almost every major religion that to live in the here and now, and to practice devotional service to the lord(god) is the most important thing you can possibly do

but there are other takes on reincarnation and karma and this and that, that are not always talked about. for one the chinese believe(as others do) that being born as a human is a blessing, no matter what status, no matter how dumb or deformed or whatever, it is a blessing in that human beings have the most probable chance of returning to gods kingdom, or attaining satori, nirvana etc

on the subject of past reincarnations, according to buddhists and hindus alike no not every past life is as a human and infact it is more likely then not that you werent a human, but like it has been said previously it all depends on your actions which really mean your thoughts, buddhists and hindus believe that karma ultimately(kinda obviously to) comes down to the mind in that your mind controls everything you do, so for example if i kill I brian and take over his website, if i acknowledge this act on a concious and subconcious level as being "wrong" or "evil" then there will be a karmic imprint on my subconcious which will determine my next reincarnation, but if i were to perform the same act and i was purely aware of it yet i still on both a concious and unconcious level regarded it as nothing at all, then there would obviously be no reaction to my action, because really how could there be? if i dont regard this act as being evil, how can i be punished or how can i unconciously remember it as being punishable? i hope this isnt to confusing, but it all ties together with the idea set forth by the buddha(and others) that the mind creates reality, and therefore you have the ideas i talk about above

and on another note, what vajradhara said about brahman i would like to clear up, when hindus talk about the "dream reality" its just another way of saying mundane reality is illusionary, but the universe we live in is a CONCIOUS creation of god, that is the vedic perspective anyway

and whomever said before that the "universal mind" is the plane where all knowledge abounds well, your half right, but when hindus or whomever use the term "uinversal mind" they mean god, god is the wellspring off ALL knoweldge, he is the alpha and the omega, but he isnt a "plane of existence", he does however according to all major faiths, exist seperately from us on another plane of existence, or in another form of existence you could say commonly reffered to as "the kingdom of god"

amitabha

[Susma Rio Sep]

Originally Posted by Zazen

( . . . )

if i dont regard this act as being evil, how can i be punished or how can i unconciously remember it as being punishable? i hope this isnt to confusing, but it all ties together with the idea set forth by the buddha(and others) that the mind creates reality, and therefore you have the ideas i talk about above ( . . . )

( . . . )

Sounds like Luther's "Pecca fortiter, sed crede fortius". Sin bravely, but believe even more bravely. Of course this pro salvation by faith axiom can be pure apocrypha; yet it is the logical conclusion.

" . . . mind creates reality . . . ", I can accept that. Many things of science fiction are now realities, like the intelligent bombs much employed by the mighty U.S.A. to fight against terror from weapons of mass destructions hoarded by third world governments of starving nations.

But I would not accept its interpretation and demonstration by Geller. He is an entertainer. If he is right about mind over matter, he should do something useful with that mind power; then Mohammed didn't have to move to the mountain but move the mountain to himself by mind power over matter.

Susma Rio Sep

[Zazen]

well, what i should have added is that logically it is impossible to disregard an evil or good act on both the concious and subconcious levels

its easy to do it on the concious level, for some anyway, but to accomplish both something is needed which is perfect intuitive understanding of the supreme godhead, or enlightenment

according to how i percieve it anyway, so..just umm go ahead and get that out of the way and your all set, youll be a "perfect man" as the taoists say

amitabha

[Susma Rio Sep]

I seem to have the impression, Zar, that you are playing with words.

It is no wonder that 99% of Catholics and Buddhists don't or can't join in with their doctrinaires' concern about mental gymnastics. They just pray to Buddha, and Mary, and Infant Jesus for all kinds of needs, wants, and wishes.

Maybe the masses are just plain idiotic; or they see through all the mumbo-jumbo of mind acrobatics which they don't have the luxury of time and idleness of a canoniture to indulge in.

Mary Christmas and Happy New Year; and Namaste, Zar. Heheheh.


Susma Rio Sep

Originally Posted by Zazen

well, what i should have added is that logically it is impossible to disregard an evil or good act on both the concious and subconcious levels

its easy to do it on the concious level, for some anyway, but to accomplish both something is needed which is perfect intuitive understanding of the supreme godhead, or enlightenment

according to how i percieve it anyway, so..just umm go ahead and get that out of the way and your all set, youll be a "perfect man" as the taoists say

amitabha

[Zazen]

well that or there is a gaping void in the universal mind

amitabha

[Susma Rio Sep]

For all the talk abot reincarnation and resurrection and communication with the dead, my dearest mother is still dead all these years.

Several times a year I visit her grave and talk to her; she does not talk back.

And all the reincarnation pundits will die and stay dead when their time comes. If they do reincarnate, there is no certifciation office that can vouch for their coming back to the world of the living, unlike the birth registry where they vouch for your original once in a time birth.

Sorrow for my mom's death, yet happy for all the sweet memory with her. Thanks to memory, then. And no need for the consolation of reincarnation.

Susma Rio Sep

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Susma,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

For all the talk abot reincarnation and resurrection and communication with the dead, my dearest mother is still dead all these years.

Several times a year I visit her grave and talk to her; she does not talk back.

And all the reincarnation pundits will die and stay dead when their time comes. If they do reincarnate, there is no certifciation office that can vouch for their coming back to the world of the living, unlike the birth registry where they vouch for your original once in a time birth.

Sorrow for my mom's death, yet happy for all the sweet memory with her. Thanks to memory, then. And no need for the consolation of reincarnation.

Susma Rio Sep

it can be a troublesome thing when one loses a loved one, especially if the loss is unexpected.

depending on what you are talking about, i.e. Hindu reincarnation, Buddhist rebirth, Jewish gilgul etc. you might be correct in your characterization, however, generalizations are hardly ever correct.

there is evidence, the question is, what evidence would you accept?

[Susma Rio Sep]

Namaste Vaj:

You say:

"there is evidence [of reincarnation], the question is, what evidence would you accept?"

In all sincerity and for my own personal concern, I do wish to have myself reincarnated after my death, if that is available for the doing of what will bring it about -- which I have got to see.

The best evidence is a demonstration of reincarnation. Is that possible, a demonstration?

Jesus was challenged about the resurrection, I think he skirted away from the challenge by alleging that even if the resurrection were demonstrated his adversaries would not believe it either.

(I could be wrong about that incident, though; I mean the particulars.)

Let's do it this way, Vaj: You present any piece of evidence you have in your possession; and I will see if it is convincing to me.


Susma Rio Sep

[Vajradhara]

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Namaste Vaj:

You say:

"there is evidence [of reincarnation], the question is, what evidence would you accept?"

In all sincerity and for my own personal concern, I do wish to have myself reincarnated after my death, if that is available for the doing of what will bring it about -- which I have got to see.

The best evidence is a demonstration of reincarnation. Is that possible, a demonstration?

Jesus was challenged about the resurrection, I think he skirted away from the challenge by alleging that even if the resurrection were demonstrated his adversaries would not believe it either.

(I could be wrong about that incident, though; I mean the particulars.)

Let's do it this way, Vaj: You present any piece of evidence you have in your possession; and I will see if it is convincing to me.


Susma Rio Sep

Namaste Susma,

fair enough.

read the history of His Holiness the Fourtheen Dalai Lama.

then... tell me if you believe him.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Good friend Vaj, you say:

Namaste Susma,

fair enough.

read the history of His Holiness the Fourtheen Dalai Lama.

then... tell me if you believe him.

I confess I have a rather adversarial regard for the Dalai Lama. On the same token, also for the Pope, and Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, and similar personalities. So I would not be doing him justice as I read his history.

The 14th Dalai Lama, is he the one who is in some conflict with another claimant to the dalai-ship?

I hope our exchange here on evidence for reincarnation does not turn unpleasant the way their rivalry to the dalai-ship appears to have developed into.

About the history of the 14th Dalai Lama, can a very short one do?

Would it be all right with you, if I request instead that you give me the evidence of his reincarnation from previous existences, in brief sentences like the following:

1. When he was born some event occurred showing he came from a past personality.

2. As a baby he was able to do things which indicate connection with the previous entity.

3. In his first years he was very devout in meditation, and did not join other children in children’s games and pastimes.

4. He knew things even before any tutoring on him which could not have been known by him were he not from a previous life.

5. . . . .

I hope that I don’t appear to be hiding behind subterfuge; but I really don’t maintain that reincarnation does not exist. It’s just that like God’s existence and maybe not so complicated as the God’s question, reincarnation seems to be neither here nor there in the realm of existence.

If it is any consolation to me and to any friends of mine or even strangers, I can readily believe in reincarnation. So, here goes:

I BELIEVE IN REINCARNATION.

As a good friend and fellow believer – if you also believe -- and have the evidence, please give me some evidence so that I can assure myself and make a case before unbelievers.

Susma Rio Sep

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Susma,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by Susma Rio Sep

Good friend Vaj, you say:




I confess I have a rather adversarial regard for the Dalai Lama. On the same token, also for the Pope, and Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, and similar personalities. So I would not be doing him justice as I read his history.

fair enough. at least you are honest

Originally Posted by susma rio sep

The 14th Dalai Lama, is he the one who is in some conflict with another claimant to the dalai-ship?

never heard of such a thing. the Dalai Lama is the sole person that has the title of Dalai Lama. perhaps, you are thinking of the Panchen Lama problem? that is a political issue now. the Chinese took the present incarnation of the Panchen Lama and have kept him sequestered since he was 4. he hasn't been seen in nearly 6 years now.

About the history of the 14th Dalai Lama, can a very short one do?

nobody has a "short" history, especially someone that is the public eye.


i'll see what i can do, however, i do not believe that i will be able to provide what you request at this time.

perhaps.. a movie would be better? there is a pretty good one called Kundun, that deals with his birth, life and escape from Tibet. it has some of the tests and so forth that he was subjected to.

[Quahom1]

What about the possibility of ancestral memory? What if our genetic makeup also contains the memories of our ancestors (up to the point of the next conception, vis a vis I am defacto familiar with things about my father's past, until the point where I am conceived, including his father's past, and so on)?

Just a thought.

[Susma Rio Sep]

Namaste Vaj:

I used to think in this manner:

The first spark of life, if such there was once upon a time in space and time, travels and branches out in cosmic universe on and on; so all of us are so many reincarnations in a way of that original spark.

My problem is with the conscious continuity of each identity like you and me, how do we recall that link back all the way to the original spak, or just to the immediately preceding one from where we derive?

Vaj, you are much more knowledgeable about evidence for reincarnation, can you do me the favor of presenting the evidence for me even just briefly.

About the movie, I saw some portion of it in cable tv and lost interest. It seems like the Nativity story without the placenta and the washing up and the details of birthing not being described in all its real specifics.

Honestly, Vaj, do we not see that when it comes to religion or religious philosophy as I would consider Buddhism, I think we could consider it a privileged area of human knowing and feeling, and we might have to just abstain from questions of evidence, except of course the one of personal expeience however it is encountered by each person.

Namaste, and I really appreciate your genuine Buddhist equanimity.

Susma Rio Sep