Past Lives

[WHKeith]

Interesting. My personal belief is that we do NOT transmigrate from species to species. But, that's just me. I have known some humans who seemed VERY uncomfortable in their bodies, and who exhibited behavior that can only be described as cat-like, or dragon-like. Objective proof is elusive, however!

I highly recommend two books, "Journey of Souls" and "Destiny of Souls," by Newton. They were written by a therapist who used hypnotic regression to take subjects back--not to a past life, but to the interlife, to their existence as souls on another plane. Yes, yes, I'm well aware that a hypnotist can make the subject remember almost literally anything, but there are techniques for avoiding this, and Newton appears to be ethical in his presentation. In any case, it's fascinating reading.

His take is that there is no transmigration, but that souls are continually being created, which also explains the number problem. [It also explains something fairly obvious in my experience: why some few people appear to be "old souls" with a LOT of life-experience, while so very many others seem to be "young souls," still on their first half-dozen times around!]

Newton's belief is that each of us, as "souls," possess a certain amount of soul-energy, but that we cannot put all of this energy into a human body. Thus, when we are incarnated, some of that energy is left behind, and that is what some people experience as "their divine self" or their "higher nature" or as a "guardian angel" or possibly even as a guide or guardian. Can't speak for the objective truth of that, but it works in my experience.

Newton points out that in HIS experience, only rarely does a person divide up his soul-stuff in such a way to incarnate as two individuals, and that it's usually a bad idea to do so, because neither person has enough oomph to do well in that life.

My personal feeling--one validated by conversations with respected friends in trance, and also through some perosnal channeling work--is the one I expressed above, that since the spirit world is outside of space and time as we understand them, it's no big deal to incarnate a hundred times, or a hundred *thousand* times, in the same stretch of history. [And if you really want to blow your mind, consider the possibility that said parallel incarnations exist through countless iterations of a multiverse, so that "we"--the higher "we"--get to experience ALL outcomes of each decision we make! Food for thought.

But I still am aware of a LOT of newbies on this planet! ;^/

[brian]

Interesting stuff.

One problem with the "transmigration" idea is that it implies a direction in the first place. For example, driven by the engine of karmic reward/punishment (though I'm not sure how animals are deemed "good" or "evil", and perhaps I misunderstand the practical concept of karma in the first place).

Existing outside of space/time is something that makes great sense to myself, which in itself potentially makes meaningless the idea of souls "progressing" – essentially you are one and another and another. If all time is and has been and has yet to be, then from outside time the notion of souls progressing would seem to make little sense.

Newton sounds interesting – but I don’t at all understand the ideas of new souls being created. I've seen that possibility before, but passed over it – in my own "spiritual experiences" I see infinite "true selfs", so I do not understand how more are created or even destroyed.

Still, discussion can only be useful – especially if it helps open us up to see our own subjective weaknesses. Perhaps that's why the whole concept of comparative religion, of discussing far different views and experiences, is always so appealing – because it helps us recognise our own limitations, and thus push for deeper metaphors. Perhaps.

[Polycarp]

As a Christian I'm "not supposed to believe in reincarnation" but I have a fairly strong conviction that it's one method that God uses for reaching people --a teacher's "go back and do it over again until you get it right" on a cosmic plane, so to speak!

And while I have a pretty good idea of what occurrences in my own present life have gone to make up the person that I am, I'm also convinced that I f*cked up royally (quite literally) in a past life, and that this time around is a chance to repair the damage I caused by neglectful misfocus before, to mend my karma, as it were. Strangely enough, this is not by any past-life regressions or mysterious dreams, but by two people, unknown to each other, having identified the same historical figure as a past life for me (one of them was there with me and bore a very strong resemblance in her young adulthood to the most famous portrayal of her own past life). In addition, I can see clearly in the boy who is my younger "honorary grandchild" the characteristics of another historically-known person of that time whom I supposedly knew very closely.

[brian]

That sounds quite fascinating, the possibility of identifying possible past life experience with an identifiable historical figure. More so because by their nature historical figures tend to be well documented, so I imagine that you've certainly got plenty to work with.

[Talia]

How would you cope with the whole new emotional experience of being someone else? I have difficulty enough dealing with just one lifetime of emotional stresses that I don't think I can handle even more! Still it is all interesting. If I could see the past without feeling it then maybe I would be interested. But that could be going beyond the point of the experience in the first place if you don't feel for it.

[Elizabeth May]

How would you even know what was real and not through regressive experience? That would be my big concern.

[WHKeith]

From what I've experienced myself, and seen with others, Talia, one doesn't have to deal with the emotional experience of being someone else. Memories of past lives are very much at a safe distance, with little emotional immediacy.

I will promptly contradict myself by pointing out that in SOME cases—and it’s always best to check for this-life trauma or issues before assuming past-life problems—emotional problems in this life can be traced to past-life causes. A woman I worked with once had an excessive fear of deep water, and some past-life work suggested that she might have died in the sinking of an ocean liner. (I’ll stop short of saying the Titanic, because I have an inherent distrust of past-life connections with major historical events and characters unless there is compelling evidence.) But in fact, it is frequently the case that when a person makes the connection with that past-life trauma, the current-life phobia is dramatically resolved. I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread my own experience, where problems with an excessive concern for honor, family duty, and family loyalty were resolved when I “remembered” committing seppuku as a samurai. This, in fact, is the major reason—in my opinion—for doing this type of regression. It helps us come to grips with ourselves, what we are, and what makes us the way we are.

Normally, we don’t remember our past lives, and some critics ask “what’s the point?” I submit that part of the reincarnation process revolves around our training and growing of our own souls. It’s not enough to simply LEARN, in a memory sort of way . . . let’s say, for the sake of simplicity, not to steal. We all learn that lesson as children—parental lectures, Ten Commandments, cop shows and Perry Mason re-runs on TV, and all that—and for most of us the lesson takes. But for many it doesn’t, and for all of us there’s an initial core of selfishness and self-centeredness that superficial learning and memory doesn’t truly touch. When we live through a number of lives—and in some we steal and pay the consequences (I’m talking about the damage we inflict on ourselves karmically, here, not going to jail!), and some we are stolen from and find out what the violation feels like. Slowly, our TRUE self, deep, deep down, gets the point, and the point stays got. It CAN'T be forgotten, because the lesson has become a part ofd the learner, not something tacked on after the fact. This, in terribly simplicity, is the point of reincarnation . . . not to remember ourselves living as Cleopatra, but to advance the state of our own souls. (I wonder what lesson SHE learned? Not to trust Roman leaders? How to find your asp with both hands?)

Earth is a school, and a very tough one, too, I might add.

Elizabeth, the ONLY way I know to “prove” the doctrine of reincarnation is to be able to line up the remembered life with some historical incident that you are not consciously aware of, and validate that history. Polycarp's experience is a good example. One friend of mine rememberes a life as a soldier killed in WWI, but she's keeping secret certain technical details she remembered, in hopes of someday having those details independently verified.

And even with verifiable remembered facts, things are chancy.

There was a famous case, going back to the ‘50s or ‘60s, I think, of a woman who remembered a past life as “Bridey Murphy,” a poor Irish immigrant. The subject knew things and spoke snatches of Irish Gaelic while under hypnosis that she could not have known in a waking state. That case has been pretty thoroughly debunked by now, with the discovery that the subject had had, as a small child, an Irish nanny who sang to her in Gaelic and who quite possibly was the unconscious source of some of “Bridey’s” remarkable revelations. (It’s also possible the debunkers are all wet; maybe the nanny's influence was necessary to awaken the subject's past-life recall. The point is, we can’t look at that case and shout, “Ah-HA! We have proof!”)

However, I saw a fascinating report in a PBS special on the topic. Sorry, I can’t cite the exact program, so this will have to be hearsay, but a psychologist hypnotically regressed a person in a town in California to a past life lived in a small town in Virginia during the Civil War. As the researcher began checking up on things, he discovered the remarkable fact that MANY people in the Californian town had also lived at the same time and place as the first subject. (This is one of the fascinating revelations of past-life regressions. We—our “soul we”—appear to work in units called “soul groups,” associating with the same spiritual entities again and again. Your husband in this life was your mother in your last life and your best friend before that and your brother before that and the stranger who helped you before that and your murderer before that and your . . . You get the idea!) He ended up hypnotizing something like 20 or 30 people in that town, all with shared and interconnected memories.

Anyway, the researcher then went to Virginia and . . . yup, sure enough, there was the town. One subject had talked about being responsible for mining a railroad tunnel outside of town, to blow it up if the Yankees came. The researcher found the tunnel, complete with holes chipped in the walls . . . though the tunnel had not, in fact, been blown.

For me, the clincher was one woman’s story of living in a particular house—meticulously described—which had a secret room underneath that was used as part of the Underground Railroad, smuggling runaway slaves north. The researcher found the house. There was no basement or underground room, apparently, but he got permission from the owners to do some excavation. He found the room, long sealed off . . . and matching the subject’s description right down to the color of the wallpaper.

I regret that this wonderful story must be presented apocryphally. I do not remember the program—it might have been on Discover—and I cannot validate the information.

Another phenomenon that seems to be quite common is past-life memories in children. Apparently, kids are VERY likely to remember past lives, especially if they don’t have grown-ups telling them, “Oh, you’re just making that up!” There are volumes and volumes of case histories of children who were able to take their parents to a specific street or a neighboring town, point out a house as “theirs,” correctly identify relatives and friends, and describe their previous lives and deaths. This happens most frequently in places like India, where past lives are taken for granted, but it happens in the West as well. There are several outstanding books on the topic available.

I know personally a child—son of Pagan parents—who at play one day was holding an elaborate discussion with himself, all about fighting and being killed; I think he was about five. Suddenly he stopped and addressed his parents with the words, “You might think I’m talking about this life. I’m not! This was my other life!” I see no reason to doubt him!

In the long run, though, there IS no proof, and no way to validate any of this. Even the case involving the Virginian townspeople, assuming the entire story is completely factual as presented, COULD, with appropriate mental gymnastics, be “explained away” as a rather bizarre experience with telepathy or shared lucid dreaming or some kind of Jungian shared unconscious. More likely would be the assumption that the researcher himself used less-than-ethical or less-than-meticulously-rigid technique, and planted that stuff.

Of course, that still doesn’t explain the wallpaper. . . .

Numerous scientific studies have been conducted to try to prove or disprove reincarnation. While absolute proof is elusive, there are some wonderfully suggestive statistics. My favorite, I think, is that in a very large sampling of past-life memories, within a large group of test subjects, 49.9% of the memories were of past lives as male, while 50.1% were of female lives. Those stats perfectly match the male-female distribution for our species. They did NOT match the male-female ratio of the test subjects.

Another interesting fact. Very, VERY few regressed subjects remember lives as Cleopatra or the High Poobah of Atlantis or other high-profile figures. (Though it DOES happen, doesn't it, Polycarp?) The vast majority of remembered lives are of . . . surprise! Ordinary folk. Farmers. Merchants. Soldiers. Housewives. People living ordinary lives. Pretty mundane stuff.

However, objective proofs aside, and as I think I’ve rambled about earlier in this thread, it doesn’t really matter whether the memories are objectively true or not. We’re dealing with some phenomenon here that reach incredibly deeply into our souls, literally. They present us with opportunities to learn about ourselves in remarkable ways. Somehow it doesn’t matter if this is through past lives, or is “just” telepathy, or "just" our own deep unconscious communicating with us!

[WHKeith]

Damn, I didn't know I'd rambled on for so long. I'm sorry, everyone!

[brian]

Not a ramble at all - there are some good points being covered.

Btw - I just noticed a faux pas with regards to my reference to the "akashik Records" and "Collevtive Unconscious". Obviously it's been a while since I read around these subjects. I'll try and adderss the concepts in another thread.

[Talia]

This area is getting quite fascinating. How would I go about exploring for past life meaning in my current life? I'd like to ask WHKeith that first (or can I call you 'Bill'?) as he has explored this area specifically by the looks. I mean, do you use spells and meditation? Or dream interpretations? Or do you need other people to work with you?

[WHKeith]

“Bill” is fine, Talia. Same goes for everyone here.

There are bunches of different techniques for past life regression. The one most hear about is through hypnosis by a trained hypnotist. That can be a bit pricey and even embarrassing (“Uh, excuse me, but do you do past-life regressions AND help patients quit smoking?”) but, fortunately, there are other techniques and, yes, you can perform some of them alone.

First, as Brian suggested, many people have odd or persistent dreams of themselves in a different place or time, or as a different person. That can, at least, give you a clue as to where to start. But you can also get a good clue by—as discussed in an earlier post—deciding what culture or historical period attracts you, what sends you into reveries and daydreams, as opposed to a care-less shrug of the shoulders? What interests you?

My first experience went like this. I was part of a class on basic witchcraft—we call it “Witchcamp”—with perhaps 10 other people. The class facilitator was Thea, a dear friend, a professional councilor and therapist, and a witch of long experience.

Thea led us in a regressive meditation. First off, she led us through some breathing exercises. These are pretty standard stuff, designed to drop you into an alpha state of brainwave activity—i.e. an altered state of consciousness, a very light trance.

(Digression. The alpha state is characterized by brainwave activity of 7 to 14 cycles. Normal waking is beta, which is 14 to 22 cycles. The exact breathing pattern was three or four deep cleansing breaths, followed by what we call “four-square breathing: breath in on a count of four, hold for a count of four, breath out on a count of four, hold on a count of four, and repeat. The first few times you do this, imagine yourself relaxing completely, perhaps visualize yourself sinking into soft and comfortable depths, or descending stairs, or whatever feels right. The idea is to picture going down, getting heavy . . . the usual hypnotic imagery. Soon, this self- imagery becomes attached to the breathing itself, especially if you tell yourself that it is (autosuggestion), and the breathing alone triggers the altered state. This produces a routine and easily attainable light trance, during which the subject is extremely aware and alert, but can also more easily “see” imaginal visualization. As you can imagine, this is an incredibly powerful tool. Yes, it’s completely safe. We are in the identical light trance state for something like 60% of our waking lives—any time we are driving, reading, daydreaming, watching TV, or doing anything where “our mind is somewhere else.)

Once in light trance, Thea had us imagine we were flying high above the earth, literally circling the globe. As we flew, we were to note particular places on the surface as it rolled past beneath us that seemed to attract us. I noted ten or twelve places of particular interest. One was Japan.

We then repeated the exercise, this time picking one place—Japan, for me—and imagining ourselves descending into that place. Very suddenly, before we had a chance to think or imagine anything, Thea told us to, in our minds, “LOOK DOWN! What do you see?”

In my mind’s eye, I looked down, and saw my own feet—in sandals. My legs were encased in black lacquer greaves or armor of some kind. The image was startlingly clear and detailed. Later research convinced me that I was seeing myself in samurai armor from the time of roughly 1550 to 1600 CE.

We performed the same exercise two more times. The first time, we were to look at ourselves performing some daily routine. In my case, I was sitting on a tatami, drinking tea and discussing something important with a very important man seated opposite me. The second, we were to see our own deaths. That’s when I saw myself on a battlefield, surrounded by headless corpses and fallen banners, kneeling on the ground and committing seppuku because I hadn’t made it to the battle on time and my feudal lord had been killed as a result. I don’t know, but my feeling is that the battlefield was Sakigahara in 1600.

I should say that I had had some interest and knowledge of feudal Japan before this regression. I’d both seen and read Clavell’s Shogun in the early ‘80s, which is set in that same period. And about twelve years ago, I wrote a six-book science-fiction series set in a future where Japan ruled an interstellar empire, and I immersed myself pretty heavily in the culture and language to bring a sense of authenticity to the readers. So all of the above COULD have been dredged up and compiled from stuff I’d read, quite easily. However, the images I saw were uncannily clear—sharper than most memory—and they were, how shall I say? Unbidden. They were simply THERE, rather than being called up in detail, as they would be when I’m making something up. Likely, the simplest explanation is that it WAS “merely” a surfacing of unconscious ideas, but the experience clicked sharply for me, and brought into clear focus problems I’d been having in THIS life over duty, honor, and birth-family loyalty conflicting with duty to marriage family.

A second regression occurred a year later. This was Witchcamp again, but for a different bunch of people. I was now a member of Thea’s coven and serving as her “D.I.” (drill instructor) in the class. We performed the exact same set of meditations. This time, I saw myself as a young girl—maybe 13? 14? Living on a seacoast somewhere in Europe—either France or England. The time was hard to pin down, but I suspect somewhere around 700 – 800 CE. My death in that one was a real shocker for me and, again, unbidden. The details may be too distressing for a public forum--TMI; suffice to say that I connected with THAT one through a this-life concern for and connection with abused women.

Since those experiences, I have found that I can put myself into a trance state and deliberately explore past lives alone. I don’t do it more primarily for reasons of time pressure. Having a journal beside you is a good idea, to record impressions while they are still sharp, and even if they seem meaningless at the time. Such impressions can often be developed with more detail later, during a subsequent session.

I note that there are numerous books on past-life regression on the occult shelves of any bookstore. I don’t have any titles offhand, but I’ll see what I can find for you. But a perusal of those titles may turn up one that works well for you.

I hope this was of help.

[brian]

Interesting post - it's certainly fascinating for someone to describe an active exploration of the issue.

Although I've had historically themed dreams, I'm very distrustful of taking that medium too much as face value. I actually get the most interesting moments in "waking visions". Have you ever suddenly forgotten yourself, and who you are, for only a few seconds, only for you to shake it off? Think that - excepting that I suddenly see into a different time period. Very strange. It can be set off by reading a topic, or simply being relaxed. Not under conscious control either. And almost never can I attribute a time period.

For some reason male personas seem all the more accessible, not doubt a reflection of their familiarity?

It always seems important to be open minded about the experience to try and explore it deeper. By that I mean that where clues exist I try to leave explanation open, because there's never enough for myself to draw together a coherent conclusion.

A fascinating subject though.

[Elizabeth May]

Ok, so bill it is. Hi Bill!
From what you say about your abused women case I can see a real reason to not want to deal with it. I don't know how real it seems to you, maybe quite something for the work you're doing, but I'm not sure I could deal with that. And if I had gone through that experience through a hynotherapist I'd be paranoid that it was implanted by suggestion. I guess hynopsis scares me a bit. Maybe it's a control thing. Maybe that's why I donlt like the idea of suddenly being aware of another identity, because it's a loss of control on my own part.

[WHKeith]

Hi, Elizabeth!

The autohypnosis I'm describing above is VERY light. You are in full control at all times, and can always tell yourself to stop. I tend to be a bit of a control freak myself (hate roller coasters, and have been known to mutter instructions beneath my breath at the pilot during landings in a commercial jet!) and would never subject myself to another's complete control unless I, a., had a compelling reason, AND b., trusted that person completely.

Nor was I ever aware of another identity. It was very much like imagining myself to be another person, but without telling myself that that was what I was going to do. The images were just kind of there, and I went with them, letting them unfold as I watched. But, for example, I have no clue as to the name of either of the individuals, or what they were like, or anything at all about them. They're just . . . figures, like minor characters once glimpsed in a movie, only these are in my head. The woman must have lived for 14 years, the samurai for . . . I don't know. Thirty, perhaps. Yet I have fewer than five minutes worth of memory for either of them.

The important thing to remember, of course, is that these may be other people, other identities, but they are also you. The pain or trauma they suffered is long past, absorbed and integrated by your soul, and now a part--a TINY part--of the whole being you are now.

And it's entirely possible both of those people are imaginary, as real as a stranger glimpsed in a dream. But even as creations of my mind, they have a reality of their own, and a purpose for being, as reflections of my own soul.

[brian]

The idea of soul groups is something that made a lot of sense a long time ago. There was also a notion then of people from different soul groups being able to exchange essential lessons and information. Sometimes I found myself almost subconsciously relating to others in terms of past life environments. An example was doing some care work for the blind a few years back, and having a waking vision of one of the residents being dressed as Roman legionary, in a grand marble hall, and causing distress to a possible previous incarnation of my own. The idea that he was a threat or something to take revenge upon seemed ridiculous in the present. There was something about the notion of forgiveness, but all a little hard to relate or explore in so quick a passing moment. Imagination? Always could be so. Though, interesting, I used him as the basis for a minor antagonist in my "Chronicles of Empire" – and corrupted his real name "Norman" into "Nomron" – as here.

I'm curious if anyone has any further information on the general notion of soul groups. It would be very interesting to see how they are perceived to work and interact, or work within their own group. The whole mechanics is often intriguing.

Sometimes people simply have a feel for a figure I don’t imagine knowing – there's something about the member here called Victor that reminds me of Polybius – who documented the war between Carthage and Rome – and, funnily enough, another person know to us both but isn’t a member here who always makes me think on Hannibal the Carthinagian. Strange. But I am a fanciful person.

Funny that you yourself should mention Japan, WHKieth – I'm sure I had a waking image of being there – a young nobleman, dressed in blue, with very jet black hair and sharp sideburns. Was only a couple of seconds, but there was a very peaceful sense of character, or true nobility of person, but also of terrible tragedy – whoever it was I saw as killed unjustly in his 20's. What does that mean? Actually, to myself, not much I'm afraid. It would be interesting to speculate a soul group connection if they are related to the same period (obviously aware that feudal Japan existed for more than a single lifetime).

And as had been rightly pointed out, it's important to keep an open mind on the entire issue. Spiritual development has a funny habit of correcting previous assumptions. What I believe today may not be the same as tomorrow. Though for past lives in general – I never find there's any firm basis for myself to define the experiences. I have waking images of other times and places, sometimes stimulated by reading a book. When stimulated, could it be related to the same process of imagining a face to a DJ, until it is seen that the true face is completely different? But other times – there is no immediate stimulus. And why is it that although I had absolutely no interest in the academic study of history in school (British Kings, WWI, Northern Ireland) I suddenly developed an intense thirst for all things Roman only a few years back?

Christmas of 1997 is when I first started buying up works on history, as study aids for writing "Chronicles of Empire". Since then I've acquired about 90 books on ancient history, including many primary sources (from Herodotus to Procopius), focussing on Rome (about a third of the works), plus Ancient Greece and Egypt, Byzantium, and the social history of Western Europe (principally the 12th to 15th centuries).

Why the sudden interest in history? Not sure. What could have been a dull research affair became a very real interest.

But as to past live visions? They could be nothing more than part of the process of imagination. Though being plainly dismissive would seem too much like cheating the nature of a process which is inherently mysterious. And as spiritual insight can show even the most seeming mundane thing to have far greater significance, I'm happy to leave the jury out on this one and simply passively observe how my perception on the matter develops.