Paradox and Religion

[earl]

Sorry about the weird sequence of postings here-just as i was typing the reply up, my computer did wierd stuff. hope it wasn't too confusing! Earl

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Sorry! And I agree with you, but in human terms love and logic are kind of a paradox. I mean, is it logical to love someone else as much as yourself? Is it logical to love God? And, a nightmare to me, what would the world look like if it ran purely on logic and reason. Dod-eat-dog and survival of the fittest in the worst connotations come to mind.

Hi lunamoth,

Well yes, in human terms...

Give us any topic and at least one of us can create a paradox out of it.

It may not seem logical to love someone as much as ourselves or to love God, but I believe that it actually is. I believe the underlying truths are ultimately logical and practical, but we do not have access to the whole picture on this plane of existence, so we not always able to understand the logic behind it.

Logic and reason...again from a human perspective, is almost impossible to visualize in a completely positive vein. As each individual has different ideas of what is logical and reasonable. As noted by correspondence on forums like this, what is logical for one, is completely illogical to another. Alot of what we consider logical and reasonable is steeped in our own attachments to ideas, and concepts, whether or not they are based in truth.

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Justice in injustice and in justice grace.

You must have seen this quote before...

"The wayfarer in this Valley seeth in the fashionings of the True One nothing save clear providence, ...He beholdeth justice in injustice, and in justice, grace. In ignorance he findeth many a knowledge hidden, and in knowledge a myriad wisdoms manifest." referring to the Valley of Knowledge from-The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys, by Bahá'u'lláh, pp. 12-13

Have a wonderful evening!

Loving Greetings, Amy

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

Hi lunamoth,

Well yes, in human terms...

Give us any topic and at least one of us can create a paradox out of it.

It may not seem logical to love someone as much as ourselves or to love God, but I believe that it actually is. I believe the underlying truths are ultimately logical and practical, but we do not have access to the whole picture on this plane of existence, so we not always able to understand the logic behind it.

Logic and reason...again from a human perspective, is almost impossible to visualize in a completely positive vein. As each individual has different ideas of what is logical and reasonable. As noted by correspondence on forums like this, what is logical for one, is completely illogical to another. Alot of what we consider logical and reasonable is steeped in our own attachments to ideas, and concepts, whether or not they are based in truth.


You must have seen this quote before...
"The wayfarer in this Valley seeth in the fashionings of the True One nothing save clear providence, ...He beholdeth justice in injustice, and in justice, grace. In ignorance he findeth many a knowledge hidden, and in knowledge a myriad wisdoms manifest." referring to the Valley of Knowledge from-The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys, by Bahá'u'lláh, pp. 12-13


Have a wonderful evening!

Loving Greetings, Amy

Hi Amy,

I agree with you again. It's just that you seemed to imply in your first post that we have no need for paradox, or that it has no place in religion. My point is that paradox is a rich part of religion and the beautiful quote from the mystic path of Baha'u'llah's Seven Valleys is a perfect example of this. Logic fails us in things spiritual, after a point.

peace,
lunamoth

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Amy,

I agree with you again. It's just that you seemed to imply in your first post that we have no need for paradox, or that it has no place in religion. My point is that paradox is a rich part of religion and the beautiful quote from the mystic path of Baha'u'llah's Seven Valleys is a perfect example of this. Logic fails us in things spiritual, after a point.

peace,
lunamoth

I see, I worded that first post poorly. glad to see we're on the same page.
If I haven't told you before, I greatly enjoy reading your posts, you have a wonderfully gentle way of putting things.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Amy,

I agree with you again. It's just that you seemed to imply in your first post that we have no need for paradox, or that it has no place in religion. My point is that paradox is a rich part of religion and the beautiful quote from the mystic path of Baha'u'llah's Seven Valleys is a perfect example of this. Logic fails us in things spiritual, after a point.

peace,
lunamoth

Hi Lunamoth,

Your desire for paradox in your spiritual model is noteworthy, could it be because it lends itself so well to poetry? Either way, no one including myself should ever try to take that away, that wouldn't be very loving.
I submit however that we have paradox because of logic rather than inspite of it. The fact that we see a conflict within a thing because it seems to condradict itself, yet does it remain whole, offends our sense of logic. The spiritual person picks up on the beautiful interplay of spirit upon itself which on the outer looks to condradict itself, but within, is rich in spiritual truth.

Is this what you mean?

Peace

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I submit however that we have paradox because of logic rather than inspite of it. The fact that we see a conflict within a thing because it seems to condradict itself, yet does it remain whole, offends our sense of logic. The spiritual person picks up on the beautiful interplay of spirit upon itself which on the outer looks to condradict itself, but within, is rich in spiritual truth.

Is this what you mean?

Peace

Beautifully put.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Hi Lunamoth,
I submit however that we have paradox because of logic rather than inspite of it. The fact that we see a conflict within a thing because it seems to condradict itself, yet does it remain whole, offends our sense of logic. The spiritual person picks up on the beautiful interplay of spirit upon itself which on the outer looks to condradict itself, but within, is rich in spiritual truth.

Is this what you mean?

Peace

Oh absolutely. And much more poetically said than I ever could.

lunamoth

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

I see, I worded that first post poorly. glad to see we're on the same page.
If I haven't told you before, I greatly enjoy reading your posts, you have a wonderfully gentle way of putting things.

Thank you, Amy.

Hope your Ridvan has been joyful thus far,

lunamoth

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Thank you, Amy.

Hope your Ridvan has been joyful thus far,

lunamoth

You're most welcome!

And Thank you! It has been a wonderful Ridvan.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by Paladin

I submit however that we have paradox because of logic rather than inspite of it. The fact that we see a conflict within a thing because it seems to condradict itself, yet does it remain whole, offends our sense of logic. The spiritual person picks up on the beautiful interplay of spirit upon itself which on the outer looks to condradict itself, but within, is rich in spiritual truth.

Lovely. I'm writing this quote down...