pagan prophecy?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

Dear Q



Well I feel that is a rather harsh statement, as this pagan prophecy fits perfectly with my own and other Christians direct communion with Christ.
So it seems that Christian fundamentalist thought is the only thing that is considered to be Christian on this forum? Is that fair and just? I think not !

Nothing is a stone in the path of the faithful lest those that put them there themselves, nothing stops anyone from sharing their hearts and love. But this is the era of unity and unity is about sharing, community, embracing not rejecting or resisting so let us share in the love of Christ and drop any misconceptions of any perceived injustice.

I posted the conversation with GOD on Ego earlier today you can find it in the alternative forum.

Love beyond measure


Kim xx

PS As soon as I saw pagan prophecy on the Christian forum I thought oh dear......maybe it should have been on comparative?

I'm not being harsh, and I think you know that. I would enjoy your thoughts (as I do now). But I merely suggested (or implied) that they be placed in the Spirituality area.

Kiddo, on certain issues, I'd be happy to debate with you until the cows come home!

Others may not find this so fun...

My deepest respect, Sacred.


Q

[Basstian]

Originally Posted by TheLovableNicola

should we give credit to a pagan prophecy of Christ?

Or should such prophecy be disregarded and why?

Well displayed here in the posts are good reasons for disregarding pagen prophecy as being a Christian thing at least according to the Bible.

We are to flee from Idoltary. There are some that will say everything is good but they put you in a very grey area where you find it hard to decern the truth from fiction or I might say Jesus from Pagen.

These type of things will and should always bring out Staunch Defenders of Gods word and Truth when introduced as Godly and thus lead to controversy which is never pretty.

I feel I showed you a very easy and true guidline to use from the scripture.
I hope it guides you well.
Another bit of advice.....Be strong in faith and Grounded well in Gods word and its truth before you explore much. This world is a dangerous dark place without a good source of light.

Thy Word is a Lamp unto My Feet and a Light unto My Path

[Sacredstar]

Dear TheLovableNicola

What does your heart tell you?

being love

Kim xx

[Virtual_Cliff]

I think it would be helpful if we were to tighten up our terminology:

Pagan is a Latin word originally used by pre-Christian Romans to describe the nature-worship styles of country-dwellers. It derives from the same root as "peasant". If we mean "non-Christian" we should say so, to avoid confusion. Many people today call themselves Pagan, but do not necessarily share anything ancient Romans or any other religion.

An idol is not a god. An idol is an image. Idol worshippers are not the same as non-Christians. Isn't there a danger we are becoming obsessed by the *name* of God, forgetting his identity? If he changed his "name", would we still know him?

A Gentile is a non-Jew. Most Christians are Gentiles. To quote a verse lambasting Gentiles does our cause no good at all.

If a Roman poet may not be respected, who can? Presumably we can use Jewish prophets, but what about modern Jewish writers? If a writer is Christian may we believe him / her? If so, does that extend to retired Bishop Spong? Is it only the Bible we can trust? Has God stopped speaking to his creation then? What did we do to offend him?

Basically, I'm saying that I'm reading a lot of knee-jerk stuff here which hasn't been at all carefully thought through. Let's elevate the debate.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

So it seems that Christian fundamentalist thought is the only thing that is considered to be Christian on this forum? Is that fair and just? I think not !

Of course it's neither fair nor just, but neither is trying to trash mainstream Christian thought, and preaching to Christians that the New Testament is one big polluted lie and that your own perspective is superior.

Ultimately, Fundamentalism is about being closed-minded, ignorant, and dismissive of other peoples opinions as valid and just.

Some Christians do it. Some Atheists do it. Some Muslims do it. And some Liberals do it.

We've been seeing far too much of that here on the Christianity board - it is a board for discussing Christian issues and issues relating to Christianity.

From an administrative point of view, clear principles laid down for the use of CR and its forums need upholding, and that means that people who call themselves Christian, but simply reference Jesus rather than subscribe to any particular organised Christian belief system, should not feel it's their place to dismiss mainstream Christian ideals on the Christianity board - this is just as Christians here should not witness at Wiccans on the NeoPaganism board.

I've tried to allow as free-reign as possible for everyone in CR - we tend to attract mostly very tolerant peope, no matter their degree of adherence to their faith. However, there are issues that need taking care off.

Juantoo3 is the current moderator for the Christianity board, but as soon as I've posted this, Quahom will join him. If he feels that any particular posts are inappropriate for the Christianity board, he will be empowered to move them to more appropriate place.We need to return to core principles and give people freedom of expression within CR, rather than outside of its remit.

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

PS As soon as I saw pagan prophecy on the Christian forum I thought oh dear......maybe it should have been on comparative?

Yes, I thought that at first - but at its heart is the question of why Christians do not accept essentially pagan interpretations of prophecy, which seems a reasonable enough question to ask Christians.

[Sacredstar]

Dear Brian

Originally Posted by I, Brian

1. Of course it's neither fair nor just, but neither is trying to trash mainstream Christian thought, and preaching to Christians that the New Testament is one big polluted lie and that your own perspective is superior.


2. Ultimately, Fundamentalism is about being closed-minded, ignorant, and dismissive of other peoples opinions as valid and just.

3. It is a board for discussing Christian issues and issues relating to Christianity.

4. But simply reference Jesus rather than subscribe to any particular organised Christian belief system, should not feel it's their place to dismiss mainstream Christian ideals on the Christianity board.

5. Yes, I thought that at first - but at its heart is the question of why Christians do not accept essentially pagan interpretations of prophecy, which seems a reasonable enough question to ask Christians.

As we know from many sources Christianity like all the world religions are going through their own growth pains and renewal. And so it is that discussion and sharing views is an important phase in that transition is it not? I have never tried to trash Christian Fundamentalist thought because it is crucial to me that every individual retain their GOD given human right to believe what is right for them and if it is considered that sharing a different perspective and comparative Christian scripture is seen as trashing other's beliefs, that is a very sad state of affairs.

In my view no perspective or belief IS superior to anyone elses and it is imperative that we honour everyone Christian or not. Maybe this is the real problem that humanity now faces as a whole. When Fundamentalists from different religions might believe there way is the only way. Comparative religion is wonderful because it helps people from all religions to see how each religion as the same or similar core values of justice, love, forgiveness, compassion, faith, and equality. The leaders of the Christian faith have become a lot more liberal in their thinking. I do not feel that the whole of the NT is a polluted lie so I am not sure where this judgement originated but it certainly as bounced to a crescendo.

So I pray that we can return to love.

2. I totally agree and should always be honoured but in honouring others does not mean that we cannot share with an open mind and heart.

3. Thank you for that confirmation.

4. I subscribe to the bedrock of Christianity which is love and through this love Jesus is the Saviour and our King, fundamentalists say that the bedrock of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins. I would be interested if anyone as ever done a poll on this belief with Christians. It does not mean that Fundamentalists are incorrect it would just be good to see exactly where Christianity IS right now, because Christianity cannot exist without the people and the people are changing and because the people are changing the leaders of the Christian faith are fully aware that they must change and modernise too.

5. Perhaps TheLovableNicola would elaborate on her initial post.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of our independent learned scholars to place a thread outlining the current Christian ideals promoted by its leaders the Church of Rome modern day.

Apart from that I am behind with my work so I will not be around quite so much but hope to get time to pop in now and again to see all you lovely people.

GOD Bless

Love beyond measure


Kim xx

[Sacredstar]

Dear Brian

I perceive this as the main problem for Christianity.


"Children who do not come from churchgoing homes - as I did not - now grow up largely ignorant of Christian ideas in a way unimaginable half a century ago. [...] The comments about religion by journalists in the press and on television [...] suggest that even the basic Christian ideas are no longer understood by university-educated people, still less by others. Indeed even churchgoers can reveal an ignorance of the main elements of Christian belief."

C of E: The State It's In by Monica Furlong, Introduction p3


Religion in Britain cites many statistics and quotes on religion in Britain, which serves as perhaps one of the most striking examples of a country whose populace have forgotten religion in all but name.

Noting that 71.1% of the population of England and Wales said they were Christian:

"Large-scale studies have shown that many of them don’t accept some - or sometimes any - of the basic tenets of the faith they purport to belong to. The BBC’s survey "Soul of Britain" found a huge proportion of nominal Christians who didn’t believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection or the miracles. They didn’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God and, indeed, a good number of them didn’t even believe in a personal God of any kind"
National Secular Society newsletter 2003 Feb 21

Now I accept the virgin birth, the resurrection, the miracles and that Jesus is a son of GOD.

being love

Kim xx

[robocombot]

The qoute of Virgil the Roman poet was from around 60 BC. While such a Prophecy could not be taken as Scripture it could, i think, pave the way for the acceptance of Christianity into the Roman world.

I dont think TheLovableNicola was trying to elavate the Roman Poet to being equal to scripture, but perhaps just to show that God could be working through 'Pagans' to provide fertile ground for the Apostles work.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by robocombot

The qoute of Virgil the Roman poet was from around 60 BC. While such a Prophecy could not be taken as Scripture it could, i think, pave the way for the acceptance of Christianity into the Roman world.

I dont think TheLovableNicola was trying to elavate the Roman Poet to being equal to scripture, but perhaps just to show that God could be working through 'Pagans' to provide fertile ground for the Apostles work.

Excellent point. If the military of mankind does reconnasance, why would not God? He is after all the expert in all things...

v/r

Q

[TheLovableNicola]

Originally Posted by robocombot

The qoute of Virgil the Roman poet was from around 60 BC. While such a Prophecy could not be taken as Scripture it could, i think, pave the way for the acceptance of Christianity into the Roman world.

I dont think TheLovableNicola was trying to elavate the Roman Poet to being equal to scripture, but perhaps just to show that God could be working through 'Pagans' to provide fertile ground for the Apostles work.

Thats just it!

This too would have given Pagans something to identify with, something that was not seen as just for the Jews, that Jesus came for all, so that all could know God.

[Sacredstar]

Dear Robcombot

Fascinating thank you for sharing.

Dear TheLovableNicola

Thank you it is so clear now why pagans would have converted to Christianity and if I may be allowed to add the same thing is happening today, many pagans are hearing and seeing Jesus and moving into Christ Consciousness. The Muslim religion prophecy also states the second coming and that the Muslims will follow him.

I agree GOD speaks to everyone I do not advocate a chosen people for all are chosen but few listen.

being love

Kim xx

[Basstian]

Acts Chapter 14
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.

I think this is very similiar to what we have here in concept Paul said God did leave Himself a witness amongst the nations This says nothing about prophecy but rather good seasons rain things needful for survival and life on this planet.
The mention of planets and gods come down in the likeness of men. sounds alot like that poem.
I suppose the apostles could have gently tried to correct these people preaching a soft message that would have gradually led them to the truth but instead their reaction was that of what seems to be almost panic at the thought of being combined with this religious practice. The fact that Paul called these things Vanities gives me the same authority.
IMO They are vain worthless without merit and edify nothing.

And I too would say it best to turn from these things after this example

Interesting that for saying these things Paul was stoned and left for dead wonder how well it will go over here?

****DUCKS****

[Sacredstar]

While anyone stands in judgement they will not hear or see GOD and the Holy Spirit for GOD comes to the pure of heart.

[Basstian]

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment

Mt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Now I need to decide which is right.

Thus saith the Lord....or....Thus saith SacredStar

think ya already know which one I am going with

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by Sacredstar

In my view no perspective or belief IS superior to anyone elses and it is imperative that we honour everyone Christian or not.

Indeed, it's more a case that I think I've been allowing the admin side of the site to slip a little, and that a little reigning in is required to ensure the site works to the advantage of all people of all faiths, rather than is seen to allow any particular belief set to impinge of others.