Origin of the symbols used in the Baha'i faith

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Who funded the buildings and elaborate designs of the baha'i world center?

And all other Baha'i house of worship. Isn't this an age old problem of religions practising social equality only waist money on iconary.

Postmaster,

Good question. The House of Worship in Wilmette, Illinois was built by donations from Baha'is from around the world, as all of the Houses of Worship are built. This particular House is called the Mother Temple, as it was he first one built. I have a prayer book, bought by my mother at the dedication and given to me in 1954.

I don't see the connection to social equality and this or other structures. As a Baha'i, I am proud of these structures. They represent Unity, Equality, and Knowledge simply standing there. They are open to the public. I have sat many times in them meditating and silently praying with others from all over the world. I love sitting on the steps and basking in the sunlight watching the endless streams of people in costumes from around the world entering the Temple. It makes my heart warm.

Thank you for the question.

Mick

[arthra]

Baha'i buildings of significance usually take years to complete at some sacrifice to the friends themselves and you can count their number on both hands...and maybe a foot. There are eight (I think that's the right number) Houses of Worship and the World Center... Bahji is actuallyt still the structure built from what then nineteenth century.. The gardens though require upkeep and that is done by workers hired for that purpose probably under supervision.

Considering that there are say seven millions Baha'is eight Houses of Worship and the World Center are not so many buildings..

Each House of Worship is designed in the future to have as dependencies around it a hostel, a hospital, a university and other social services for people generally...so the social service aspects were never forgotten.

Also you may have heard that Baha'is have many social developement projects around the world inspired and encouraged by us...

Check out:

www.bahai.org/article-1-8-0-1.html

- Art

[Postmaster]

what im trying to say is, the bahai world center seems like alot of money was pumped into it. All them designs of symbols, birds and even simple things as light holders look very very expensive to produce, who funded them and wouldnt money have better spent on serving the poor? I seen videos on Youtube, the gardens are amazing and they I can undertsand by purely artistic skill of a good gardener they can be be cheaply created and maintained. But all them artifacts, monuments need alot of expensive and experienced work and material to produce and they are very elaborate. I just find it hypocritical that Baha'i faith preaches new world order of social equality and to do as older religons hyprocritcally pumped money into there iconary instead of giving it to the disenfrachised.

[9Harmony]

Hi Postmaster,

One thing to understand is that the World Center was built to last 1000 years. And honestly, it probably cost less than one extravagant building in the US, which if they're lucky will last for 50 years.

I have not gone on pilgrimage yet, but have heard that that they really are not extravagant inside. Very minimal furnishings.

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings redux, Postmaster! :-)

As Amy already pointed out, these building are to last a millenium! So when you divide their cost by their lifespan, they're really quite a bargain.

Further, the Baha'i temples (currently seven with an eighth currently under construction) are our gifts to the rest of the world: no specifically Baha'i activities are held in them. (For example, a Baha'i can't get married in one.)

And a point to bear in mind is that we're taking great pains, at our sole expense, to design and build the most perfect places possible! (If you read any of the reviews about our temples and world center, I hope this will become obvious.) I humbly suggest to you that most religionists of any faith would very likely endeavor to do the same sort of thing. None of this is "iconry," please note--just beauty for the love and worship of God.

Nor has this hampered our development projects, which again are funded solely by us and of which there are well over a thousand around the world! And these benefit society at large, not the Baha'is. (They're things like irrigation projects, schools, and disease-eradication measures. Screwworm investation was completely wiped out of NE Africa through the efforts of the Baha'i development program there, for example.)

I would also humbly suggest that others really aren't in a position to dicatate too much how our money is to be spent given that it's 100% our own money, voluntariliy contributed, and that we neither solicit nor accept funds from anyone else.

One quibble for a third party, BTW: the Wilmette temple is in fact the second one ever built. The first was in Ishqabad, and was confiscated by the Soviet government (later an earthquake destroyed it).

Many regards,

Bruce

[Promethium]

Interesting to hear about the different development projects. Although reading about screwworm is going to give me nightmares.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

what im trying to say is, the bahai world center seems like alot of money was pumped into it. All them designs of symbols, birds and even simple things as light holders look very very expensive to produce, who funded them and wouldnt money have better spent on serving the poor? I seen videos on Youtube, the gardens are amazing and they I can undertsand by purely artistic skill of a good gardener they can be be cheaply created and maintained. But all them artifacts, monuments need alot of expensive and experienced work and material to produce and they are very elaborate. I just find it hypocritical that Baha'i faith preaches new world order of social equality and to do as older religons hyprocritcally pumped money into there iconary instead of giving it to the disenfrachised.

There was some haste in the completion of the terraces at the world center. The city of Haifa wanted to do restoration of the road which runs from the harbor to the base of Mount Carmel and in order to make the project simultaneous with the straightening of the road it was necessary to press forward with plans that were meant to unfold more slowly. We solved that problem by making a general appeal to all the Baha`i's in the world to give funds specifically to that purpose, but not to take funds away from those given to the general Baha`i Funds. It succeeded quite well and not only were the central funds of the faith supported, but it gave people all over the world a sense of participation in such a project for a millenium.

By straightening Ben Gurion Avenue and lining it up with the staircase to the terraces they made a breath-taking view.

The gardens were Shoghi Effendi's beautification project on a very personal level. It was not infrequent for him to be sweating with the landscapers and gardeners. In our traditions it is well known how much the Bab and Baha`u'llah loved gardens and they spent so much time in prison cells where they were unable to visit such places of beauty.

The Gardens are known in Haifa as the "Persian Gardens" and are a city landmark where all are welcome to visit. It's been quite common for decades that wedding pictures be taken in the Persian Gardens no matter what the faith of the couple might be.

Regards,
Scott

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

what im trying to say is, the bahai world center seems like alot of money was pumped into it. All them designs of symbols, birds and even simple things as light holders look very very expensive to produce, who funded them and wouldnt money have better spent on serving the poor? I seen videos on Youtube, the gardens are amazing and they I can undertsand by purely artistic skill of a good gardener they can be be cheaply created and maintained. But all them artifacts, monuments need alot of expensive and experienced work and material to produce and they are very elaborate. I just find it hypocritical that Baha'i faith preaches new world order of social equality and to do as older religons hyprocritcally pumped money into there iconary instead of giving it to the disenfrachised.

Actually, Postmaster, not to split hairs, The Baha'i Faith does not preach about anything. Baha'is share with those that ask the principles that were given to the world by Baha'u'llah. These principles include the Oneness of Mankind, recognizing that a New World Order will emerge from the chaos of civilization and social justice will prevail. We don't say it must happen. We don't say when it will happen. We simply say that God has ordained that it will happen. It will happen we believe through the use of mans logic and rational thinking that God gave us. It will be the will of mankind recognizing the insanity of the path it is taking and turning to the path of logic designed by God.

We are also told that we should seek spiritual solutions for economic inequities. The Baha'is as individuals have shown great empathy for the poor and have been effective in aiding those that are less fortunate. I am not aware of any single group of people in this world, the size of the Baha'i Faith, that is more dedicated to aiding and helping all the peoples of the world, regardless of their ethnicity, race, gender, or religion. I live in a community with about 100,000 people where there are hundreds of Christian churches that are in direct competition with each other.

Mick

[arthra]

"Hypocrisy" is an interesting word to throw around... I think unless someone has experience in providing social services and weighs that against the few structures that our Faith has built in the past hundred years or so along with it's many social projects, it's rather a peculiar thing to say.

Baha'is are in the forefront when it comes to reducing prejudices and supporting programs that reduce the distance between people.

Also consider that the Central Figures of the Faith spent much of their lives imprisoned or exiled with practically nothing..and the Faith is even illegal in some middle eastern countries...after a hundred years of carefully and painfully building some Holy Places with minimal costs and not accepting any assistance from non-Baha'is it's considered "hypocrasy"?!

- Art

[Postmaster]

after a hundred years of carefully and painfully building some Holy Places with minimal costs and not accepting any assistance from non-Baha'is it's considered "hypocrasy"?!

I'm talking about hypocrisy of Baha'i teachings compared to Baha'i projects.

Some Christian denominations reduced there places of worship to bare minimal so that they can serve the needy better, this I think is using Gods reason effectively.

[Popeyesays]

Look at it this way:
1) How many cathedrals were erected in Europe over the last five hundred years?

2) How many grand architectural projects were complete by the Baha`i's over the last 163 years?

Which one is ostentatious or an example of conspicuous consumption? The average community of Baha`i's works toward developing their finances to where they can afford a center. Those centers are rarely ostentatious.

One can also ask how much a religion pays their clergy, but that's loaded in the favor of Baha`i's.

Regards,
Scott

[Mick]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I'm talking about hypocrisy of Baha'i teachings compared to Baha'i projects.

Some Christian denominations reduced there places of worship to bare minimal so that they can serve the needy better, this I think is using Gods reason effectively.

If you've noticed, it is your continuing use of the word hypocrisy that has caused some of the responses. Hypocrisy means, "Insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have."

The posters here have listed many reasons why the word hypocrisy isn't a good word choice. No, building 8 structures in the whole world, only 8, in 160 years is not a flash of cash. You mentioned a denomination reducing there places of worship so they can serve the needy better. Good for them. I am aware of some ministeries that live a very spartan life. I know many more, though, that build bigger and bigger, but that is not any of my business.

The Baha'i Faith is not a social organization. It is not a relief for the poor organization. It is a religious administrative order that is desseminating the information from the most recent Manifestation, Baha'u'llah, to the peoples of the world. Individual Baha'is through their own effort and through projects that are sponsored by them with funds or expertise are helping those in need. They do this because they are trying to live the principles they so dearly love.

Have you ever heard the adage, "Give a person a fish and feed him/her for a day. Teach him/her to fish and feed for him/her for a lifetime."? Baha'is are teaching both the rich and the poor of their personal responsibilities and how to change their plight. They are doing this by espousing the principles when possible and quickening souls. Baha'i projects are seldom broadcast in the press. They are localized and helpful to those in need. They do not look for publicity in the name of Baha'u'llah, but would look for publicity in the name of charity.

Remember, Postmaster, we have no clergy. We don't have a zillion zillion dollars going out in prentious living for its leaders. We live the life because we choose to. We find the truth of God and then respond to it because we choose to. We individually sacrifice careers, relationships, and lifestyles so as to live/teach/share/support this wonderful cause, because we choose to.


I see no hypocrisy. I still see the same loving community that is changing the world in the face of others screaming there is no hope.

Mick

[BruceDLimber]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Look at it this way:
1) How many cathedrals were erected in Europe over the last five hundred years?

2) How many grand architectural projects were complete by the Baha`i's over the last 163 years?

Which one is ostentatious or an example of conspicuous consumption?

Not to mention which, how many towns (many of them with lots of poor folks) have dozens and dozens of competing churches, each usually with its own more-or-less expensive building (or with the same in the planning stages)?

Whereas if we're lucky, we generally have at most one Bahai' center in a city IF we're lucky, often an old, converted home.

I think the contrast speaks for itself.

Peace,

Bruce

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I'm talking about hypocrisy of Baha'i teachings compared to Baha'i projects.

Some Christian denominations reduced there places of worship to bare minimal so that they can serve the needy better, this I think is using Gods reason effectively.

Actually Postmaster, most all Baha'is around the world meet in each others homes and a few have Centers...by far the majority don't even have a "place of worship". Also we have no paid clergy. The few Houses of Worship are open to everyone...even those who wish us ill... there's no exclusivity.

In my town alone there are a hundred places of worship of various denominations and independent churches and most of these have paid clergy and clerical help...

There are about seventeen hundred social developement projects around the globe and these are also open to anyone...non-Baha'is.

Baha'i Topics - Bahá'í Development Projects: A Global Process of Learning

- Art