Order of Service & Musical Instruments

[Bandit]

How does the order of service go in Islam?

Are there any instruments used & special vocals in the praise & worship?

[muslima]

I think only DUff is allowed in ISlam only on eid or weddings iam not sure but i guess other musical instuments are haram in islam.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Bandit

How does the order of service go in Islam?

Are there any instruments used & special vocals in the praise & worship?

h| bandit,
Use of musical instruments is haram [forbidden], so what to speak of its use in prayer. You can check out the recent Music thread; the info contained in it is enough. Bottom line: No musical instruments.
The latter part of your question requires some time. there is a rule in all this: The Prophet (pbuh) said, "Pray as you have seen me pray". So, a general run-down of the complete prayer would be a good idea but before i do that, ill check if its been discussed before as this is a common question among non-muslims.
And with Allaah lies all guidance.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by thipps

h| bandit,
Use of musical instruments is haram [forbidden], so what to speak of its use in prayer. You can check out the recent Music thread; the info contained in it is enough. Bottom line: No musical instruments.
The latter part of your question requires some time. there is a rule in all this: The Prophet (pbuh) said, "Pray as you have seen me pray". So, a general run-down of the complete prayer would be a good idea but before i do that, ill check if its been discussed before as this is a common question among non-muslims.
And with Allaah lies all guidance.

i read the music thread, so i guess instruments are forbidden. can you have instruments outside of the religion? it appeared there is no singing as well.

when you have service, then mostly you have prayer?
I will wait until others join to bring the order of service together, so i dont confuse the issue.
thank you

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i read the music thread, so i guess instruments are forbidden. can you have instruments outside of the religion?

H| Bandit,
i dont want to swamp you, so i'll be concise. Firstly, i must confess that i dont understand when you say 'outside the religion'. If you mean 'outside the mosque', then I would explicitly tell you that islam does not start and stop at the mosque. The ruling is general and applies at all times.

it appeared there is no singing as well.

As for singing or humming a few (poetic) verses in which there is praise of Allaah or commending some good characteristics and other good meanings, the basic principle is that poetry is words; if the words are good it is good and if they are bad it is bad. So if the words are free of any bid’ah [innovation] or exaggeration that is condemned by sharee’ah [Islamic Law], and it is free of any bad or ugly words that are inappropriate and should not be said of Allaah, then it is acceptable to sing such things occasionally, on condition that it is not done in the manner of singers and promiscuous people, because that is imitating people of immorality and sin (“and whoever imitates a people is one of them”).

when you have service, then mostly you have prayer?

'Service' is a Christian term and I dont know of any equivalent term that exists in Islam. We go to the mosque five times a day to perform Salaah, which is translated as 'prayer'. One person leads the prayer who is called the Imam. Besides the various movements (e.g. standing, bowing, sitting, prostration), some part of the Qur'an is recited as well. We praise God, thank Him for what he has given us, receive guidance through hearing the recitation of the Qur'an and also ask for what we want (e.g. the good of this world and the Hereafter). The prayers are performed at fixed times and therefore, if one arrives early, then one can read the Qur'an while one waits. You can do that after the prayer is finished as well.
Hope this helped.
And Allaah knows best.

[Bandit]

ok. thank you Thipps .
so when you go to Mosque you have a reciting of Quran & prayer.
someone leads this with some type of order correct? that is what i mean by service.

can you play an instrument like piano or trumpet outside of the mosque?, like in school band or for a concert & special entertainment & play the radio & CDs at home. that IS WHAT I MEAN BY OUTSIDE the religion.
it is forbidden at mosque i understand.
are instruments also forbidden at home in personal time away from mosque?

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Bandit

ok. thank you Thipps .

Most welcome Bandit.

so when you go to Mosque you have a reciting of Quran & prayer.
someone leads this with some type of order correct? that is what i mean by service.

I assume from your questions, that you have not seen people praying in a mosque. I suggest a visit. Easier to see it, than to explain it. Still not sure about ur use of the word 'order' because you said "with some type of order" instead of saying "in some type of order". just to make it clear, yes there is a sequence of movements. These are to be done in proper order. During the prayer, among other things, we also learn to 'follow the leader'. The Imam does the movements and we follow him. He stands, we stand. he bows, we bow. But these are all done as the Prophet (pbuh) did. In the various movements i spoke of before, the Qur'an is recited while we are standing. Please note that it is a recitation. There is no lecture or explanation as it is Salaah and not a class.

can you play an instrument like piano or trumpet outside of the mosque?, like in school band or for a concert & special entertainment & play the radio & CDs at home. that IS WHAT I MEAN BY OUTSIDE the religion.
it is forbidden at mosque i understand.
are instruments also forbidden at home in personal time away from mosque?

ah, then i understood you correctly last time. I will say again that Islam does not start and stop at the mosque. There is no such place which you can call 'outside the religion'. Islam is a way of life. It gives guidance in all spheres of life for the betterment of mankind. What you do outside/inside the mosque and what you do outside/inside the home is the business of God. No musical instruments period (irrespective of where you are).
If you require further clarification, please do not hesitate to ask.
Hope this cleared it up.
And Allaah knows best.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by thipps

Most welcome Bandit.
I assume from your questions, that you have not seen people praying in a mosque. I suggest a visit. Easier to see it, than to explain it. Still not sure about ur use of the word 'order' because you said "with some type of order" instead of saying "in some type of order". just to make it clear, yes there is a sequence of movements. These are to be done in proper order. During the prayer, among other things, we also learn to 'follow the leader'. The Imam does the movements and we follow him. He stands, we stand. he bows, we bow. But these are all done as the Prophet (pbuh) did. In the various movements i spoke of before, the Qur'an is recited while we are standing. Please note that it is a recitation. There is no lecture or explanation as it is Salaah and not a class.

ah, then i understood you correctly last time. I will say again that Islam does not start and stop at the mosque. There is no such place which you can call 'outside the religion'. Islam is a way of life. It gives guidance in all spheres of life for the betterment of mankind. What you do outside/inside the mosque and what you do outside/inside the home is the business of God. No musical instruments period (irrespective of where you are).
If you require further clarification, please do not hesitate to ask.
Hope this cleared it up.
And Allaah knows best.

This causes musicians to be "an inferior caste" in many Islamic cultures. Music remains popular amongst the people regardless, but it is on the edge of acceptability nonetheless.

Its always puzzled me that in Persia music is so very popular, but the clergy is usually critical, without having much effect on the popularity of music in the least.

It is my understanding that music was pretty much outlawed by the Taliban.

Regards,
Scott

[Bandit]

wow. i guess that sums it all up.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

This causes musicians to be "an inferior caste" in many Islamic cultures. Music remains popular amongst the people regardless, but it is on the edge of acceptability nonetheless.

Its always puzzled me that in Persia music is so very popular, but the clergy is usually critical, without having much effect on the popularity of music in the least.

It is my understanding that music was pretty much outlawed by the Taliban.

Regards,
Scott

Please try not to mix culture with Islam. I know its difficult for you to make out the difference. Taliban does not equal Islam. And just cause western culture loves music and Islam prohibits it, doesnt make muslims barbaric/bonkers/crazy.
It doesnt matter if people accept it or not. This isnt how Islam works. God tells you what is right and what is wrong. End of story. The rest is upto people to follow it or not. We are taught that this life is a test for the hereafter. So, if you dont follow the teachings,then the sin is on your head. simple. So, people's acceptability is immaterial.
Hope that clears it up.
And Allaah knows best.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by thipps

Please try not to mix culture with Islam. I know its difficult for you to make out the difference. Taliban does not equal Islam. And just cause western culture loves music and Islam prohibits it, doesnt make muslims barbaric/bonkers/crazy.
It doesnt matter if people accept it or not. This isnt how Islam works. God tells you what is right and what is wrong. End of story. The rest is upto people to follow it or not. We are taught that this life is a test for the hereafter. So, if you dont follow the teachings,then the sin is on your head. simple. So, people's acceptability is immaterial.
Hope that clears it up.
And Allaah knows best.

What I said was: "Originally Posted by Popeyesays
This causes musicians to be "an inferior caste" in many Islamic cultures. Music remains popular amongst the people regardless, but it is on the edge of acceptability nonetheless.

Its always puzzled me that in Persia music is so very popular, but the clergy is usually critical, without having much effect on the popularity of music in the least.

It is my understanding that music was pretty much outlawed by the Taliban.

Regards,
Scott


I do not think that constitutes saying:"And just cause western culture loves music and Islam prohibits it, doesnt make muslims barbaric/bonkers/crazy."

Despite the "banning" of music in Islamic culture, music sells very well, music is enjoyed in public performance, and musicians practice their art even though they are otherwise devout muslims. So Islamic culture loves music too, even though they have to mask that enjoyment sometimes music is a viable part of the culture of Islamic civilization. There is even a Persian complex of sattelite television stations that produce MTV style videos with a large galaxy of musical stars in Farsi and Arabic.

I find it hard to postulate the Islam is the pillar of Muslim culture and at the same time say that muslim belief does not affect the culture. The Taliban attempted to create a truly "Islamic" state. It did a bad job of it in many ways. In Iran they had a lengthy cultural revolution that still chafes against the conservative clergy's fixations on what an Islamic culture must be.

The clergy of Iran has been unable to stamp out the Baha`i Faith, and it is unable to stamp out cultural expression in music.. The people follow an injunction or choose not to follow it. I see in many instances where the clerical authorities attempt to compel obedience even when the cultural impetus is against the injunction.

As to Islam, I am not a follower. I am, however, probably the most sympathetic non-Muslim ear you will find on this board.

Regards,
Scott

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Despite the "banning" of music in Islamic culture, music sells very well, music is enjoyed in public performance, and musicians practice their art even though they are otherwise devout muslims. So Islamic culture loves music too, even though they have to mask that enjoyment sometimes music is a viable part of the culture of Islamic civilization. There is even a Persian complex of sattelite television stations that produce MTV style videos with a large galaxy of musical stars in Farsi and Arabic.

I repeat: Please try not to mix culture with Islam.
you might end up confusing others with your use of the term 'Islamic culture'. Please lets not complicate a simple matter. We are talking Islam here. Yes Islamic teachings has its influence on these countries but its not necessary that every single action of these people accurately reflects Islamic teachings. And you only prove my point that they dont. I wasnt under the impression from Bandit that we were discussing cultures. As far as i could tell, we were discussing Islam. So, i'll be sticking to that.
regards,
thipps