Notes

[Postmaster]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I'd class it as a lie.

Do you have any way of convincing me that its a lie?

[17th Angel]

I think it would from personal experince and opinon, I am not here to convince anyone... To me it is a lie, mankind will never be one, it will forever fall into small factions that rage and hate agaisnt other factions, abuse and take advantage of the other factions...

-Edit-

Indeed you have one of these factions that hopes, dreams and aspires to world peace... But, It will remain as a hope..

[Mick]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I think it would from personal experince and opinon, I am not here to convince anyone... To me it is a lie, mankind will never be one, it will forever fall into small factions that rage and hate agaisnt other factions, abuse and take advantage of the other factions...

-Edit-

Indeed you have one of these factions that hopes, dreams and aspires to world peace... But, It will remain as a hope..

I wonder if you would agree that having hope is a whole bunch better than having no hope. We do believe that the message of Baha'u'llah gives the world hope. It tells us what God expects of us. It gives us directions so we, as individuals, can live as if Mankind is One. If their are factions, that is the result of God's plan which gives each individual a choice to follow His will or their own.

Without hope you have hopelessness. How sad. There are many people in the world that are living in hopelessness by no act of their own. The sadness comes from those that chose to live within their own pathetic uncaring, hopelessness. Well, I guess once you reach the bottom of the pit, everthing is up after that.

The fact is "The world is one country and mankind is its citizens." The fact is "We are the fruits of one tree, the drops of one wave." The fact is "Mankind is One." Not a lie. Not even unbelieveable. It is believeable, reachable, and becoming more apparent as time passes. It is becoming more of a reality today, than at any time in the history of man.

Mick

Mick

[arthra]

"...it will forever fall into small factions that rage and hate agaisnt other factions, abuse and take advantage of the other factions..."

Since the world is "shrinking" and nations are more interdependent the recognition of the oneness of mankind is probably even more necessary than it was say oh... two hundred years ago and today there are institutions such as the United Nations and the world court that we didn't have before...so while there continue to be small factions and fighting it will hopefully be more restricted or on a smaller scale at least that's our hope...

- Art

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I think on an intellectual level I'm with agreement with the Baha'i faith now and this has caused me to think in different ways. I think one of the most important observations of the Baha'i faith is how religion and science corresponds. At first I used to object to this saying it was quite a bold statement. Now either because I've been brain washed or because I have finally come round to seeing the sense to it I've accepted it and think it's fundamentally integral to the religion. Here's an extending conclusion I've been thinking about and another way of saying this, is that materialism and spiritualism correspond so if human beings feel the same material pain, feel the same material emotions, require the same emotional comfort and the same emotional needs. This can only amount to near or the same spiritual outcomes and we are all within the same range.

What else I've realised is that the Baha'i faith is in no way a superior religion to any other, it is simply a duty. I don't think being a Baha'i can make you more moral then someone practising conservative Christianity or any other religion. People practise good and bad independently from religion. In this sense I view the Baha'i faith as a duty if ones intellect becomes revealed to it.


That's as far as I can go with the Baha'i faith, I have no intensions of a conversion, its an impossibilty to me.

Hi Postmaster, I am very happy for you finding this new path, to whatever extent you decide to become formally part of the Baha'i community. You've made some very good comments in your post above and it is much how I feel about the Faith as well. In fact, like you I agree with all of the beautiful Baha'i Principles. I'm especially glad to hear that you've found this peace with the Baha'i Faith because for the longest time I felt bad for directing you toward it when it seemed to cause you so much consternation. But in the end it has been an enriching period of growth which is so good to hear.

Like the others above I would encourage you to try to find your local Baha'i community and meet some Baha'is in person to answer your questions and find out more about the Faith. There should be many things you can attend without formally declaring. Plus, the Baha'is I've known have been some of the greatest people I've ever met...you will be sure to enjoy their company.

Best wishes!

luna

[Popeyesays]

What slogan? On the ring, I mean. It's a symbol like a Mogen David, a Cross, etc. Not a written language at all.

The vertical lin e is the Grace of God. The top line is God, the Creator, the middle line is the Kingdom of the Manifestations, and the bottom line is Creation Itself. The two five-pointed stars are representations of the Temple of Man or the Twin Manifestation of the Temple of Man represented by the Bab.

The Nine-Pointed star is simply a representation of the nine sides of a Baha`i Temple and the mystical number of completion.

9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1=45: 4+5=9

The Greatest Name is a caligraphic representation of the Arabic word "Ya-Baha`ul Abha" which means God is the Greatest Glory--roughly.

Regards,
Scott

[Postmaster]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I think it would from personal experince and opinon, I am not here to convince anyone... To me it is a lie, mankind will never be one, it will forever fall into small factions that rage and hate agaisnt other factions, abuse and take advantage of the other factions...

-Edit-

Indeed you have one of these factions that hopes, dreams and aspires to world peace... But, It will remain as a hope..

Then the Baha'i faith be the cure. It's an open source faction, that's the difference and the whole point.

[BruceDLimber]

No problem, Peter!

We've never claimed to be "more moral" than anyone else!

Best, :-)

Bruce

[BruceDLimber]

Hi, 17th!

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

To me it is a lie: mankind will never be one, it will forever fall into small factions that rage and hate agaisnt other factions, abuse and take advantage of the other factions.

Then I humbly suggest you don't know many Baha'is (maybe not any).

We disagree profoundly because we see this as very much a basic truth of life, and are endeavoring to do all we can to make it happen!

We alredy have Baha'i communities in literally every country on earth, and there are more of us every day. It may indeed be a slow process--with the usual regrettable ten-steps-forward-and-nine-steps-back--, but we're sure we'll eventually arrive at this goal of a universal, loving, and peaceful concord!

Nor have we ever claimed achieveing this will be simple, or easy, please note. But that hardly makes it not worthwhile to attain! And as goes the old saw, "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?!"

And as a favorite Baha'i saying goes (one that, BTW, contains a semi-outrageous Baha'i pun!):

THE KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH
.....(Some assembly required.).....

Best, :-)

Bruce

[Postmaster]

Also Baha'is believe that mankind has a prosperous future ahead. Quite contrary to many in the past believing that the world will end and many still do believe this. I'd like to believe G-d has a plan for humanity, instead of thinking G-d created something complex and great only to see it get wiped out in an instance.

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings, greetings! :-)

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Also Baha'is believe that mankind has a prosperous future ahead. Quite contrary to many in the past believing that the world will end and many still do believe this.

We agree; very much so! :-)

And in fact, the "end of the world" thing is largely a matter of mistranslation!

Aside from the eventual expansion of the sun millions of years from now (by which time humanity will doubtless have expanded to other places), the Bible--for one--says no such thing!

The word in the original Greek of the New Testament is "eras," which means "world" or "age." And IOV the translators creating the King James version picked the wrong meaning, and this in fact is speaking of the end of the Age! Very different nuance, as I'm sure you'll agree.

Best regards, :-)

Bruce

[Postmaster]

just want to say I finally ordered the ring but I got another one from another site as I was more happy with the online payment method from this one.


GentlemenRings

[arthra]

I hope you'll enjoy your ring!

Have you understood the meaning of the ring stone symbol?

There's a good explanation by Hand of the Cause of God Mr. Faizi...

"The two five pointed stars on both sides of the emblem represent the human body: a head, two hands and two feet. These two stars represent the twin Manifestation of God in this Day. Their advent is the fulfillment of all the writings of God's prophets in bygone ages, Who, emphatically, repeatedly and often, in a language clearer than the light of sun, assured mankind of the undoubted appearance of these Twin Luminaries, Who would rescue the world from the fetters of prejudice and the dictates of self."

Conqueror of Hearts: Chapter 9: "Explanation of the Symbol of the Greatest Name"

- Art

[Postmaster]

cheers Arthra