Noahs ark discovered?

[Faithfulservant]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom..._010823-1.html


Now if only Turkey would allow archeologists in.

[I, Brian]

This is one of those stories that has been simmering for a while. If I remember right, though, there's an argument that the dimensions at Ararat are apparently at odds with the Biblical ark measurements, as per the Genesis description. I'm afraid I don't have a handy article on it, though.

[lunamoth]

Just wondering, has anyone ever taken the biblical dimensions of the ark and calculated whether it could hold two of each known species of animal? If there is a discrepancy, how is it explained? This seems like a more doable test of the literal interpretation of the ark.

[I, Brian]

Even if it were calculated as physically impossible, there's always the word...miracle.

[lunamoth]

That's right and I believe miracles happen. I just wonder why we need material evidence for miracles. I don't get into trying to "debunk" the miracles of the Bible because I think the Bible is God-inspired and also God-protected (in other words, what we have in hand is from God and it is what we are supposed to have. It is not corrupted). However, when I see an agenda searching for material evidence I wonder why? Any evidence that happens to support the literal interpretation is held high while any going against it is argued out of by saying it is miraculous (defies logic). I don't think this serves either the advancement of science or religion.

I guess it is a characteristc of our age so focused on the material world.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom..._010823-1.html


Now if only Turkey would allow archeologists in.

Hi Faithfulservant,

I just wanted to say that I am not trying to be snarky against your post (I enjoy your upbeat and positive posting style). I tend to generally critical of scientific claims for spiritual truths so it is nothing personal . I am interested in what it is up there on that mountain and will be very curious if it turns out to be a man-made structure. Claiming that it is Noah's Ark certainly gets people's attention but I think in the long run these premature claims don't help anyone's faith.


Peace,
lunamoth

[Faithfulservant]

I read an interesting article about it on national geographic.. remember in the bible it took him 100 years to build it.. God told him HOW to build it.. He didnt build it to sail he just needed it to float. The animals came to him.. He didnt go around the world gathering the animals.. in the article the theory was that the world was one continent then and during the flood the bible says that the earth pushed up mountains and created valleys it would be a good time for the tectonic plate shift. Also remember that alot of animals go into hibernation during bad weather. I didnt post it to help anyones faith.. I posted it as a topic for discussion...If its not an interesting topic to discuss why post on it?

I believe that theres a biblical explanation for everything I do not believe that Man has one up on God...ever so I like to play around with theories about how and when things happened in accordance with history on Gods terms. Im not the only one.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html

http://arksearch.com/naexped.htm

[Bandit]

Seems like this popped up about 10 years ago. I was very excited when I saw it on TV. If I remember, they think it broke in half.

if it really is the Ark, it still wont be enough for man to believe that God is there.

[Bandit]

I read an interesting article about it on national geographic.. remember in the bible it took him 100 years to build it.. God told him HOW to build it.. He didnt build it to sail he just needed it to float.

ha ha ha...it did not have to sail, it just needed to float. LOL I just caught that. you know they were all on that ark for over 6 months. Sometime between 6 months and a year! They did not just jump right out after 40 days.

That ship did not have a captains wheel, it was guided by God, the very same who gave the blueprints.

[Quahom1]

Let me see if I can present a comparrison for perspective.

I served on half a dozen ships in my career, and sailed four of the five oceans. There were times when we (160) crewmembers stayed at sea for over three months (not pulling into port once), during our patrols. Our ship in one particular case was 327 feet long, by 35 feet wide, by 65 feet tall from keel to flying bridge, and only had two decks below main and three decks above (if you could call them decks, they were the superstructure-no living quarters, save for the Captain). We carried a million gallons of bunker C crude oil (for fuel), and 200,000 gallons of potable water. We made fresh water as we went along. We ate the fresh food stuffs first, and lived off of salted, and dried food stuffs later. We often held fish call, to augment our diet. Our Chief cook and his crew were Filipino/Americans (they can make shoe leather a gourmet meal entree...)

We were alloted 30 gallons of water a day per man (we took "sea showers", three minutes of water). We took our dirty uniforms and put them in a web "ditty bag", with a Tide Detergent bar, fastened a line to the bag and through it over the side, letting the salt water and prop wash scrub our clothes clean. He, he, you didn't need starch to make your uniform crisp and stiff - the salt took care of that!

We held a very strict regimen aboard the ship, but still found time to entertain ourselves, and write, and reflect. We became a small village in our own right, very very tight.

My point is if 160 men can survive onboard a tin can 300 feet long by 35 feet wide for three months, an Ark ten times that cubic footage with low maintenance animals for passengers and only 10 or so humans, could last a year. You might think that they couldn't make water to survive? How salty do you think the seas were after 40 days and nights of rain, and a rise of over what, four kilometers in the sea level? I'm certain Noah knew how to distill salt water into fresh, in any event. A ten year old can do it, and Noah was over 500 years old when he set sail.

I don't know about the genetic drift, but then that isn't my forte, engineering is. And from that perspective, it is very possible for a crew and cargo to live for a year at sea.

v/r

Q

p.s. Faithful? Where did you come up with this...nevermind

[lunamoth]

Here's another thing to think about that's been "bugging me."

There are over a million known species of insects in the world today, not counting those that have become extinct. Beetles alone count for over 500,000 species. And the category of insects does not include animals like spiders, centipedes or worms, just those with 3 body parts, 6 jointed legs, 2 antennae and an exoskeleton.

Anyway, you need male and female of each type of beetle, bringing that to a million beetles on the ark. Besides just the creepiness of this, consider that conservatively each beetle is less than a cm long (a US penny is almost 2 cm in diameter, for comparison), and to make the math easy lets say that the average beetle can live for a year in a cubic cm . So, if I'm doing this correctly you need 10,000 cubic meters just for the beetles alone.

The ark dimensions I found on the web are 135 m x 22.5 m x 13.5 m = 41,006.25 cubic meters. So, for the beetles alone you need a quarter of the space of the ark just to hold them. If you add in the other 500,000 types of insects (still not including bugs like spiders, centipedes or worms), you need half the space of the ark to hold them.

Good thing that insects account for 95% of all animal species!

cheers,
lunamoth

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Here's another thing to think about that's been "bugging me."

There are over a million known species of insects in the world today, not counting those that have become extinct. Beetles alone count for over 500,000 species. And the category of insects does not include animals like spiders, centipedes or worms, just those with 3 body parts, 6 jointed legs, 2 antennae and an exoskeleton.

Anyway, you need male and female of each type of beetle, bringing that to a million beetles on the ark. Besides just the creepiness of this, consider that conservatively each beetle is less than a cm long (a US penny is almost 2 cm in diameter, for comparison), and to make the math easy lets say that the average beetle can live for a year in a cubic cm . So, if I'm doing this correctly you need 10,000 cubic meters just for the beetles alone.

The ark dimensions I found on the web are 135 m x 22.5 m x 13.5 m = 41,006.25 cubic meters. So, for the beetles alone you need a quarter of the space of the ark just to hold them. If you add in the other 500,000 types of insects (still not including bugs like spiders, centipedes or worms), you need half the space of the ark to hold them.

Good thing that insects account for 95% of all animal species!

cheers,
lunamoth

ha ha ha. I have thought of the same stuff. actually I think God took care of the spiders and worms and beetles just fine. They could of just lived in the cracks of the boat like they do our houses. And what of the termites? Who knows. I bet some of those bugs just survived kind of hibernated in trees and the ground like grub worms do all fall and winter.

I think God just wanted the joy of seeing his servant build this boat and then gather the animals into the ark of safety. So as Noah served God in building the boat, God served Noah in the safety of the Ark. But I bet there were plenty of bugs that just appeared especially from months of animal manure inside. It does not seem very clean in there does it?

I think he took in 2 unclean and seven (7) clean. The confusing part is was it TWO pairs of two? I think the animals just kind of got on board without much fuss.

[Bandit]

I served on half a dozen ships in my career, and sailed four of the five oceans.

What is the 5th ocean Quahom?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I think God just wanted the joy of seeing his servant build this boat and then gather the animals into the ark of safety. So as Noah served God in building the boat, God served Noah in the safety of the Ark. fuss.

Thank you Bandit for certainly the best and loveliest interpretation. You made my night.

[But maybe this thread is not really meant for the secular/science section. ]

[Faithfulservant]

Ok if you think about it.. Most bugs could have simply been eggs laying in the fur of the animals and it wasnt necessary to house animals birds fish and bugs that could survive in water. God guided the animals to the ark.. Dont you think he would have thought about planting some eggs in the fur? hmm food for thought.

And Q... where did I come up with what?? no fair starting a sentence and not finishing it. :P