No Eretz Israel?

[Prober]

What's with the orthodox viewpoint that man should not create a state of Israel and do you agree?

[dauer]

Prober,

That's a minority opinion within orthodoxy, one of a very small minority, not the default position. And no, I do not agree. But then again, I don't accept supernaturalism, so who else could have created a state of Israel but us?

Dauer

[Prober]

Originally Posted by dauer

Prober,

That's a minority opinion within orthodoxy, one of a very small minority, not the default position. And no, I do not agree. But then again, I don't accept supernaturalism, so who else could have created a state of Israel but us?

Dauer

I guess sans supernaturalism, there is no basis for objection.

I thought most Jews thought G-d gave them the land. Not true?

Do a majority find the Christian romanticism silly?

[dauer]

Prober,

The covenant asserts that the land is given to the Jewish people, but it never says that if we are forced into exile, we cannot establish a state of Israel on a portion or all of that land. The state isn't a theocracy. If you're referring to the moshiach, the moshiach is supposed to establish a Davidic monarchy with a Sanhedrin, in addition to all of the other grandiose concepts associated with him. The current gov't of Israel in no way impede or breaches on that process. You can read more about traditional views here, and it's a decent overview in general, although I think it's a bit too apologetic about the early Zionists.

Judaism 101: The Land of Israel

A more even read of the early zionist movement are available on a myjewishlearningpage I can give you, written by someone a bit more detached about the subject, as well as probably other places on the web, like Wikipedia.

Do a majority find the Christian romanticism silly?

Well, the gemara says that if someone tells you the moshiach has arrived while you're holding a sapling, first you plant it and then you go greet him. There is definitely a religious and spiritual connection to the land of Israel, but except for a few crazy fanatics on the far right, most of us are happy to work with the current reality. Well, I shouldn't say happy. I've spoken to people who just want to get out of there. It's a mess right now. But I think you understand what I mean. Most people are willing to work with the world as it is.

Dauer

[Prober]

Thanks, Dauer!

I'll read up.

An acquaintance of mine says I need to open the "the Jews killed our Lord" box.

I was raised "far right" and am now learning for myself...

Thanks, again,
Mark

[Francis king]

cheers dauer, u've made the issue clearer for me...