New to the Path

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by fire-nymph

I find it difficult to imagine that wands were 'invented' in the 1950s because, if ancient witches used what was to hand, what's easier than walking a metre out of your front door and snapping a twig off a tree?

I don't think that anyone suggested that wands were "invented in the 1950s." I can understand WHKeith's postulation that wands might have been introduced to witchcraft by Gardner. I don't agree with that postulation though as I've seen references to witches using wands that appear to date prior to Gardner's involvement.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by WHKeith

Not sure if this falls under your definition of "herbal," or not, but it iS legal: try taking a dose of vitamin B-12 or B-12 complex just before bed. This is a technique I learned years ago in my Craft training, and it works for most who try it. I use it off and on when I need to do specific dream-work, and find that I dream more (or remember more, at any rate) and more vividly when I do.

I got some B-complex vitamins yesterday, and took one with my supper. I have to say last night I had some of the most vivid dreams I've had in a long time.

I will be taking another B-vitamin with supper tonight and hope to have more vivid dreams tonight.

Thanks, WHKeith, for that B-vitamin tip! I'd heard it before but your post spurred me to actually give it a try.

[WHKeith]

You’re very welcome, bgruagach. Happy dreaming!

And, no, fire-nymph, I didn’t mean to suggest that magick wands were invented in the 1950s . . . only that I, personally, have seen no evidence that they were used by members of the Craft prior to that time. They were definitely part of the altar furniture in ceremonial magical lodges as far back as the 1870s and in stage magic from at least that time. There are woodcuts showing sorcerers using them to herd demons in the 1500s. We know the Druids used them at least a couple of thousand years ago, believing they carried the virtue of the tree they were taken from. Rulers and priests carried wands to show they bore the authority of the gods as far back as ancient Sumer.

I’d be interested in hearing evidence that witches used them prior to Gardner, though. I am fascinated by the evolution of the Craft, and of other traditions in which humans have attempted to wield subtle or magical energies. We do see the same techniques popping up again and again throughout recorded history. Almost as if there’s something to it which is continually rediscovered or reaffirmed. Mmm. . . .

The modern Craft is wonderfully eclectic. It is my contention that one of the biggest eclectics of all was Gardner himself, who quite openly borrowed from the Masons, the Golden Dawn and from Crowley himself (their meeting is recorded in one of Crowley’s diaries), the Rosicrucians and the spiritualists (did you know the term “Summerlands” came from the 19th-century spiritualists originally?), Enochian magic (though this may have come to him via the Golden Dawn, which also used that system), Qabbalistic teachings, the writings of Murray, Frazer, and Leland, and the gods know what all else.

I’m not saying this was a bad thing. Certainly not! I’ll use whatever works. I make and use my own magic wands, in fact, and care not at all when or where witches first used them.

As ever, I remain convinced that the key to magic has little to do with the outward tool. A wand is just a stick unless the magician’s mind is convinced otherwise. To this end, a witch won’t just snap off a handy branch, but will find the proper tree, ask the tree’s permission (very Druid, that!), harvest the branch at a special time (or harvest only a branch that has fallen) according to moon or stars, consecrate it in-circle, charge it magically . . . all acts that serve to tell the witch’s subconscious mind that there is BIG ju-ju in this stick!

I believe that all of the mystique, tradition, and tools of the Craft basically echo this same theme: things are sacred or powerful because we believe them to be so, no matter what their origin, or how or when they entered Craft tradition.

[Johanna]

The Pentacle: Nothing much to do with witchcraft, it apparently originates from the Quabbala (sp) and was probably dragged into Wicca by Gardner

The Pentacle, or Pentagram rather, was used before Judaism in Egypt, I think. It was then adopted by pretty much everyone in Europe. I know that Scandinavians used to carve pentagrams into the cribs of their infants to ward of the fay, trolls and the riverman. Pregnant women also wore it as protection and men going to battle sometimes did as well, so that the riverman wouldn't mark them. (The riverman is a mixture of old heathen mythology and Christianity's Satan, i believe. He lures women, and sometimes men, into deadly waters by playing - usually on a violin - beautiful music. If you see him, as himself or in the guise of an old crone, washing your soldier friend/sibling/spouse/parent's clothes in the river, then this person will die in battle).

[Susma Rio Sep]

WKeith concludes:

I believe that all of the mystique, tradition, and tools of the Craft basically echo this same theme: things are sacred or powerful because we believe them to be so, no matter what their origin, or how or when they entered Craft tradition.

Shouldn't you, WKeith, add the following phrase to the end of the paragraph: or whether they work or don't.

Susma Rio Sep

[fire-nymph]

Originally Posted by Johanna

The Pentacle, or Pentagram rather, was used before Judaism in Egypt, I think. It was then adopted by pretty much everyone in Europe. I know that Scandinavians used to carve pentagrams into the cribs of their infants to ward of the fay, trolls and the riverman. Pregnant women also wore it as protection and men going to battle sometimes did as well, so that the riverman wouldn't mark them. (The riverman is a mixture of old heathen mythology and Christianity's Satan, i believe. He lures women, and sometimes men, into deadly waters by playing - usually on a violin - beautiful music. If you see him, as himself or in the guise of an old crone, washing your soldier friend/sibling/spouse/parent's clothes in the river, then this person will die in battle).

Thanks for clearing that up for me

[The Mysterious]

Hello!

I've heard Witchcraft is a thing that the Wicca use.
Wicca uses Witchcraft, but rather practise their religion,
more than use Withcraft.

So what i've come up as result is tha Witchcraft is no the same as Wicca.

By the way, care helping me start Wicca as religion and Witchcraft too?

Thanks in advance!

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by The Mysterious

Hello!

I've heard Witchcraft is a thing that the Wicca use.
Wicca uses Witchcraft, but rather practise their religion,
more than use Withcraft.

So what i've come up as result is tha Witchcraft is no the same as Wicca.

By the way, care helping me start Wicca as religion and Witchcraft too?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome, Mysterious.

I'll keep this response short as this should probably be in a thread of its own.

Yes, it is true that witchcraft and Wicca are not exactly the same thing. Witchcraft is a practice (basically, the practice of magick) and Wicca is a specific religion. Wicca does base a lot of its ideas on witchcraft lore. There are a lot of witches out there who are not Wiccans though. And there are some Wiccans who say they are not witches too (although I wonder about that... I think they are missing the point of Wicca.)

There is a lot of excellent introductory information on Wicca as well as other Pagan religions at http://www.witchvox.com in their Info menu in the Basics section. Witchvox has a lot of other great info too. Be sure to check it out.