²nd Coming

[lººk]

I had a dream somewhile ago. In this dream, I was in a city, a big city. I was driving my car around this city. Finally I come upon a goverment/state building to my right side of my car. The building was like the Congress Building in Austin, TX. Then I saw a message in the clouds saying:

"Jesus is Coming. For Jesus is never wrong."

Dream ended.

My guess is Jesus is coming soon. When? I don't know. Only Father knows.


lººk

[I, Brian]

Moved to Christianity.

[Dondi]

I gather the question ought to be: Do dreams have significance in reality today?

The biblical scriptures are replete with example of dreams and visions coming to pass: Joseph, Daniel, Ezekiel, John. Well, even some those prophecies are interpreted differently by different folks from different sects and denominations today. Some believe that according to the Book of Joel, young men will dream dreams in the latter days. The question is, how much validity should we invest in people's dreams, particularly ones like the one above which seem to have a prophetic element.

A couple of observations, if I may. In the first place, it is no secret that many people, indeed the bulk of Christianity, believe that one day Jesus will return, in a cloud no less, so this part of the dream tells us nothing new. Taken in context with the message appearing near a government building, one might interpret that it could be a warning for governments to take the message of Christ's return seriously, for He is to one day rule the nations according to scripture. Perhaps the warning is that this particular government has become to secularized and is in danger of losing God's blessings of a once godly nation.

But then again, the message for nations to repent is nothing new either. I would be more interested in dreams that have specifics about certain places, people, and/or events, though I would be cautious not to take something too seriously unless the dreamer has a decent track record, like Daniel or Joseph did, before believing in the possibility of it coming to pass.

To be honest, I think people looking for messages in dreams and visions ought to look at the stuff that's already written in scripture before venturing in that direction. There is certainly enough prophecy in the Bible to consider.

[taijasi]

Concerning the 2nd Coming, clouds, and dreams, there are a couple of things that your dream, lººk, and your response, Dondi, reminded me of.

The first is the prophecy in Matthew 26:64 that "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

I agree with one wise author who pointed out that "millions come and go in the clouds, each hour of the day and of the night" ... and that therefore "The symbolic prophecies found in all the world Scriptures anent this imminent event will prove their veracity; their symbolism will nevertheless elicit reinterpretation; circumstances and happenings will not necessarily be exactly as the Scriptures would appear to indicate."

As one documentary on television explains, at any given moment, there may be as many as ten thousand airplanes in the skies of our planet ... each filled with many dozens of passengers. We must not forget, that such a condition would not likely have been unknown to the foresight of the Christ, though obviously he would not have been able to explain it very well to his followers.

For a parallel, consider the following prophecy, made by the 8th Century AD Indian Buddhist Guru, Padmasambhava (who helped spead Buddhism in Tibet, and is regarded by some as a reincarnation of the Buddha Himself):

"When the iron bird flies and horses run on wheels, the Tibetan people will be scattered like ants across the face of the earth, and the Dharma will come to the land of the red men."

Lest we cast the Christ in the shadow of those with no foresight, I think we must consider what the prophecy in Matthew suggests. Perhaps the Christ already walks among us, as yet unrecoqnized by a world with other things on its mind. I only mention the possibility ...

As for dreams, I have had any number that were clearly prophetic, highly suggestive, or in some cases clear communications that I think were meant for my waking consciousness. One of the most amazing, however, and one which convinced me of something I already essentially believed in (the objectivity of non-physical states, or worlds of existence for all people), went like this:

While in college, and while taking a philosophy class one summer, I recall having a particularly lucid dream involving a classmate named Maurice, whom I hardly knew. He was a clear thinker, and quite intelligent - and at least at that time, if not much since ... I was the same. In my dream, Maurice and I were sitting on a low, stone wall, outside of a newly constructed classroom building ... so new it had yet to be named (and was called, the New Classroom Building!). The precise topic of our conversation now escapes me, and I haven't remembered it for several years, but when I awoke from the dream, it was pristine clear in my memory. I found it unusual to have been dreaming of conversing with Maurice, since I scarcely knew him, and since we had never talked outside of class. Yet it was as if we were both almost physically present in the dream, carrying on this conversation.

Now what was at first uncanny, then a complete trip, then one of the most amazing things in plain & simple terms which has ever happened to me (like a deja vu, but not just any deja vu) ... is that after our philosophy class, which was the morning of the dream, I walked over to Maurice - and feeling a bit awkward & on the spot, I still could not resist, and found myself trying to say in a sensible & masculine way, "Hey, I had this strange dream about you while ago." Certainly I was uncomfortable, but I knew I'd have a chance to explain ... except that I didn't have to. The awkwardness disappeared, as Maurice was already ahead of me, and was already telling me about the exact same dream - which he had had about me! Same place, same circumstances, same scenery, and same topic of conversation. And what we both found (or already realized) was the craziest part of all, is that on that particular morning, when we went to our philosophy class across campus, there was a note directing us to the New Classroom Building - something about having class there so we could help evaluate the space or something. The spot in which Maurice and I started talking about the dream, was right in front of this building, and we sat down on that stone wall as we were both dumbstruck in amazement. After all was shared, we really didn't even need to keep talking. I think both our lives had been forever impacted!

Now under various circumstances, I'm as happy as the next guy to admit of coincidences, or apply Occam's Razor, especially given my philosophical background - and an appreciation for the sciences, empiricism, and clear logic, or reasoning. But here was something unshakable, and solid! By no means is this the most profound strange experience I've ever had, but it proved for me once and for all - that the dream world is (potentially) objective, and that meetings such as this occur all the time. Every night in fact, for most of us ... of this I am confident. I already essentially believed that 17 years ago, but this was the icing on the cake.

Other things, like detailed telepathic experiences (entire conversations) with people sitting right next to me - confirmed by both of us - long ago helped lift the veil for me regarding this strange & mysterious place that we call home - or rather, the modus operandi of human consciousness, in/on it's many worlds, planes, or levels. I now look on things like Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and the entire host of Biblical prophets and prophecies - as well as those in other Faith Traditions - as something we should strive to better understand ... but I can never again question, or truly doubt. I can only be in awe, and reach out to others who have similar realizations ....

Remember Shakespeare's statement, through Hamlet:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

peace,

andrew

[mee]

Seeing with the eye of understanding , makes things very clear

[Faithfulservant]

I believe in symobolism in the bible.. I believe also that God is very literal.. Lets look at clouds since I believe Look may have had a prophetic dream. Remember that it is said that we will dream dreams and have visions in the latter days. I believe this since I believe I have had a few myself. We test prophesies by asking ourselves is it good and does it go along with what is taught in the bible.

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

Clouds could mean witnesses. This is obviously a symbol for the multitudes of saints in heaven witnessing.

1Kings 8:10-12 And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. Then Solomon spoke: "The Lord said He would dwell in the dark cloud.

1 Ch 5:13-14 indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever," that the house, the house of the Lord, was filled with a cloud, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God.

Job 26:9 He covers the face of His throne, And spreads His cloud over it.

Matthew 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!"

Luke 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

These are quite literal to me.. You see that God dwells in the clouds.. It also comes to my mind that the clouds could be of the Spirit of the Lord since HE is the active force of God.

Ezekiel 30:3 For the day is near, Even the day of the Lord is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.

OT prophecy mentioning clouds on the Great Day of the Lord.

This all points to me believing that whether its symbolic or literal.. noone is going to miss seeing it.

Thank you for sharing your dream Look. They are precious and meant for sharing since sharing it edifies God and the Church.

[inhumility]

Hi!
An interesting thing, these days while I was just looking around different groups I came across of a website (removed by the Moderator)
This fellow Dore Williamson claims that he is Jesus who has returned to earth again as awaited by the people. His e-mail address is: (Removed by the Moderator).
What is your opinion about him? Please visit the website and comment .I think it is directly related with the topic under discussion.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by inhumility

Hi!
An interesting thing, these days while I was just looking around different groups I came across of a website
This fellow Dore Williamson claims that he is Jesus who has returned to earth again as awaited by the people. His e-mail address is:

What is your opinion about him? Please visit the website and comment .I think it is directly related with the topic under discussion.

I'm afraid it doesn't work that we here at CR Inhumilty. Please read the CR Code of Conduct HERE

[Quahom1]

It is interesting to note that the bible is of two apparent minds on this issue. One is where the angels tell man that Christ will return as He left (in clouds). The other is that Christ will return on a white horse, in full armor.

Both, books state Christ will return, however the method of returning is different (to say the least). Why? Any takers?

v/r

Q

[path_of_one]

So maybe he's coming back in full armor, riding a white horse, in the clouds?
When in doubt, just take both options...

I'm rooting for the horse, of course... and a white one nonetheless. I hope I get to take my gray Arab with me to greet Him. (I'm always partial to the horses...)

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It is interesting to note that the bible is of two apparent minds on this issue. One is where the angels tell man that Christ will return as He left (in clouds). The other is that Christ will return on a white horse, in full armor.

Both, books state Christ will return, however the method of returning is different (to say the least). Why? Any takers?

Second vision looks like symbolism to me. First one ... ? Probably not many people 2,000 years ago were thinking of airplanes. The fact that millions fly on airplanes daily, ascending into the clouds and descending again, means we must re-evaluate such prophecies as this. Which plane will Christ be on? Hmmm ...

And just exactly why wouldn't he travel among us in this way?

andrew

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It is interesting to note that the bible is of two apparent minds on this issue. One is where the angels tell man that Christ will return as He left (in clouds). The other is that Christ will return on a white horse, in full armor.

Both, books state Christ will return, however the method of returning is different (to say the least). Why? Any takers?

v/r

Q

"Then I looked, and lo, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to Him who sat upon the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped." (Revelation 14:14-16 )

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, every one who pierced Him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him." (Revelation 1:7 )

"with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and He came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him; His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom one that shall not be destroyed." (Daniel 7:13-14 )

Maybe its both.. He returns on or with the clouds on that white horse in a full suit or armor. Either way.. what a sight it will be.

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by taijasi

Second vision looks like symbolism to me. First one ... ? Probably not many people 2,000 years ago were thinking of airplanes. The fact that millions fly on airplanes daily, ascending into the clouds and descending again, means we must re-evaluate such prophecies as this. Which plane will Christ be on? Hmmm ...

And just exactly why wouldn't he travel among us in this way?

andrew

/boggle

Because He's God.. Why would need to travel like we do.

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

/boggle

Because He's God.. Why would need to travel like we do.

... mmm, I would just quote from an old The The song, but I'm afraid I would either offend, or that people would misunderstand. The point is, I don't think the Christ would be able to move among us today and find acceptance as easily ... if certain unnecessary behavior were adopted. Also, my own belief is that there is an economy of energy in the Universe. This means that - while Christ could zap around and walk on water and so forth - He would not do this needlessly, nor simply to awe & impress, for I believe that He will act both efficiently and prudently. This would best allow Him to go about His mission - to love, to serve, to teach and to heal. Anything else, would cause problems, don't you think?

andrew

[mee]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

"Then I looked, and lo, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to Him who sat upon the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped." (Revelation 14:14-16 )

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, every one who pierced Him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him." (Revelation 1:7 )

"with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and He came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him; His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom one that shall not be destroyed." (Daniel 7:13-14 )

Maybe its both.. He returns on or with the clouds on that white horse in a full suit or armor. Either way.. what a sight it will be.

not forgetting that for the most part, the last book in the bible is presented in signs ,for the most part it is highly symbolic .and is giving us a glimpse into the heavens
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John, revelation 1;1 so seeing is not always a litral seeing , but it is the eye of understanding. so when the bible tells us that every eye will see it is the eye of understanding about Jesus and the role he is playing in Gods purpose . ......... as an example , i look at it a bit like when someone is talking about something that happened in my grandfathers day , and i get the picture and the understanding about what he is telling me , and i would say .......... oh i understand i seeeeeeeeee what you mean. i do not litraly see , but it is the eye of understanding