Natural Justice: Does it exist?

[Blue]

"once the rational and spiritual worlds merge, and there is no choice but to recognize God"

This statement, IMHO, embodies an irrationality.

If the world/domain of 'spirit' were to become merged with the rational and objective domain, there, in logic, would be no need for the term 'spiritual' domain or 'Faith' domain or an entity such as 'God'.

Let me try to explain:
There would be no necessity for Faith if the object of faith was proven as a rational and objective entity.
Faith demands by definition that the object of faith is not provable in any way beyond a personal affective, subjective and personal affirmation. This doesw NOT make the object of Faith 'true' or even existent in any way beyond self-affirmation.
IF it DID, the word 'Faith' would be redundant... the 'object' would provably be - objectively - a fact.

Please consider any definition of faith in any generally accepted dictionary.

As always, please allow me to also reiterate that I am a theist and accept the irrationality of that 'belief'.

[Blue]

SacredStar,
I should have thanked you before for the reference to the peer-assessed journal you so kindly posted.
I have considered and noted that the people concerned are writing what is often called, quite legitimately I think, pseudo-science.
Such metaphysical conceptualisations are interesting but are usually firmly still in the metaphysical,rather than physical realm, when they have been read.
In my opinion, these people bear a heavy responsibility for the fanciful ideas they propagate.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Blue

"once the rational and spiritual worlds merge, and there is no choice but to recognize God"

This statement, IMHO, embodies an irrationality.

If the world/domain of 'spirit' were to become merged with the rational and objective domain, there, in logic, would be no need for the term 'spiritual' domain or 'Faith' domain or an entity such as 'God'.

Let me try to explain:
There would be no necessity for Faith if the object of faith was proven as a rational and objective entity.
Faith demands by definition that the object of faith is not provable in any way beyond a personal affective, subjective and personal affirmation. This doesw NOT make the object of Faith 'true' or even existent in any way beyond self-affirmation.
IF it DID, the word 'Faith' would be redundant... the 'object' would provably be - objectively - a fact.

Please consider any definition of faith in any generally accepted dictionary.

As always, please allow me to also reiterate that I am a theist and accept the irrationality of that 'belief'.

Hi Blue,

I think the main problem here is my poor writing ability.

I agree with what you've just written, just as I agree with your oft repeated observation about faith being irrational. I fully enjoyed the exchage between you and Q in another thread about this.

You asked some questions about end times and so I gave you my understanding. We live in a rational world yet many of us are compelled to have faith, which is irrational. Some have faith in the promise that Christ will return and rule His Kingdom. It is from this basis, imagining a time when God irrefutably rules over all we know, that I say the rational and spiritual will merge. And you are right: objectivity and faith will both be gone. This is the state of being I can't imagine and would certainly represent the end of the world as I know it.


Cheers,

[lunamoth]

Oops, was writing fast and interupted by bath and bedtime for my girls. I should have said that faith would be gone, rather than faith and objectivity.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Blue,

I think the main problem here is my poor writing ability.

I agree with what you've just written, just as I agree with your oft repeated observation about faith being irrational. I fully enjoyed the exchage between you and Q in another thread about this.

You asked some questions about end times and so I gave you my understanding. We live in a rational world yet many of us are compelled to have faith, which is irrational. Some have faith in the promise that Christ will return and rule His Kingdom. It is from this basis, imagining a time when God irrefutably rules over all we know, that I say the rational and spiritual will merge. And you are right: objectivity and faith will both be gone. This is the state of being I can't imagine and would certainly represent the end of the world as I know it.

Thanks Lunamoth for a very brave and honest response.

As you say, you like to conceive (imagine, you said) of a 'God' that may rule in the state you hypothesise.
You know I would agree that is fine...
As you also say, that would certainly represent the end of the world as we currently know of it... a state perhaps of pure reason - with humanity and the affective playing its part, but never dominant.