My recent visit to a Muslim Center

[Yaqinud Din]

if

so, what gives you the right to define that? your authority is presumably either drawn from interpretations of the Qur'an and hadiths which are (also presumably) disputed by non-salafis, or from texts written by salafi scholars. in essence ,your argument appears to be "we're right because we say that our interpretation is right", or the shorter version of that, "we're right because we say so". now, i may miss my guess, but isn't that a teensy bit flimsy? i can't really see how that differs from a catholic (or a JW for that matter) saying the same thing - "we're the only true X and everyone else is wrong - sez us!".... and if so, why can't the ahmadis say the same thing?

So Bananabrain why is your sect of Judaism right is it because your interpretation of the Torah or your orthodox Scholars interpretation maybe Jews for Jesus is the true Judaism maybe Jesus (pbuh) is your Messiah funny how that works don't ya think. Hey Maybe the Karaite are right the Tulmud is bunk.

[Yaqinud Din]

As I said to Will believe what you want I'm not going to go around and around with you guys because you will not believe me anyways

[wil]

Originally Posted by Yaqinud Din

First off nobody calls themselfs Wahhabi. Muslims all over the world has said they reject Terrorism the truth is that Good Muslims make bad news in the west thats a fact. See the link for the Salafi position and what the Scholars have said about Terrorism ...Any way I hope this helps.

Helps bunches...speaking of western news...I would think there are a ton of people that would be playing up the angle if the majority of the Islam world condemned Al Queda and those that act not in accordance to the conventional beliefs.

And speaking of western news...it is regularly reported that Wahabism is the belief system of the Saudi Royals..and prevelent in Saudi Arabia...tis this also made up?

I see your Salafi Scholars...however as you have said, you are but one in a sea of Islam, are you standing alone in regard to the terrorsist element?

Something needs to be done, or the violence will continue to escalate, I don't believe this is a holy war (Christian v. Muslim) but it appears the Suni v. Shiite battle is raging and Al Queda is trying to indicate this is Christians attacking Islam...as long as they can convince Muslims of that, then the Christians that are prone to nationalism and racism will gravitate toward agreeing.

I'm not trying to go 'round and round on anything....would just love to understand, and see more peace in our world.

[Yaqinud Din]

Helps bunches...speaking of western news...I would think there are a ton of people that would be playing up the angle if the majority of the Islam world condemned Al Queda and those that act not in accordance to the conventional beliefs.

As I said Islam rejects Terrorism and I have gave you a link with the Scholars. I know that the news in the west has it out for Islam I know this because when was the last time you seen the news talk about the N.L.F.T a Baptist Christian Terrorist group in India who have shot school kids and women for not coverting to Christianty.

The N.L.F.T gets its funds from christian in the west I ask you Will look this group up.

And speaking of western news...it is regularly reported that Wahabism is the belief system of the Saudi Royals..and prevelent in Saudi Arabia...tis this also made up?

Read the Wahabbi Myth

http://www.thewahhabimyth.com

Something needs to be done, or the violence will continue to escalate, I don't believe this is a holy war (Christian v. Muslim) but it appears the Suni v. Shiite battle is raging and Al Queda is trying to indicate this is Christians attacking Islam...as long as they can convince Muslims of that, then the Christians that are prone to nationalism and racism will gravitate toward agreeing.

Everyone here knows my views about the sick Raafidah so I will not go into this feel free to look up old threads to see my view if you don't know. Well some Muslims see it as Christian vs Muslim because the usa are 90% Christian so I can understand this.

Hope this helps.

And Allah knows best.

[Yaqinud Din]

I'm not trying to go 'round and round on anything....would just love to understand, and see more peace in our world.

Well I'm more then happy to try and help you the best I can but when it comes to going around and around about why the Salafis are the saved group it gets us no where read what Shaikh Salih al-Fawzaan says.

Shaikh Salih al-Fawzaan was asked, "Is Salafiyyah a hizb (party) from amongst the parties. And is ascribing to them (i.e. the Salafis) a blameworthy thing?"

To which he replied, "As-Salafiyyah (i.e. the Salafis) is the Saved Sect, and they are Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah. It is not a hizb (party) from amongst the various parties, those which are called "parties" today. Rather they are the Jamaa’ah, the Jamaa’ah upon the Sunnah and upon the Deen (religion). They are Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah. The Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, "There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah manifest and upon the truth not being harmed by those who forsake them neither by those who oppose them" and he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also said, "And this Ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of them in the Hellfire but one". They said, which one is this O Messenger of Allaah? He replied, "They are those who are upon what I and my companions are upon today". Hence Salafiyyah is a group of people (i.e. the Salafis) upon the madhhab of the Salaf, upon what the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) and his companions were upon and it is not a hizb from amongst the contemporary groups present today. Rather it is the very old Jamaa’ah, from the time of the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) which inherits (this way) and continues, and which never ceases to be upon the manifest truth until the establishment of the Hour, as he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) has informed (us)." (Cassette: "at-Tahdheer min al-Bid’ah" second cassette, delivered as a lecture in Hawtah Sadeer, 1416H).

This is why the Salafi are the saved group because we follow what the companions followed not because we just say so as Banana was trying to say but I'm sure you will not understand me.

Hope this helps.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Yaqinud Din

The N.L.F.T gets its funds from christian in the west I ask you Will look this group up.

Read the Wahabbi Myth

http://www.thewahhabimyth.com

the wiki article on the NLFT is scary stuff, if true all Christians should be seperating themselves from this organization.

I've read the Wahabbi Myth.. But it did not identify what the House of Saud actually promotes today.. It indicates most terrorists including Osama Bin Laden are Qutbists, (are Qutbists Sunni or are Sunni Qutbists or are they like cousins?) Is House of Saud Qutbist, Sunni or Salifi or something else?

Is there a chart somewhere on history of the creation of the various sects in Islam?

[Yaqinud Din]

I've read the Wahabbi Myth.. But it did not identify what the House of Saud actually promotes today..

Saudi Arabia is a Salafi state some of the royal family have said they are Salafi but I'm not sure how many truly are so I can only take them on their word.

are Qutbists Sunni or are Sunni Qutbists or are they like cousins?)

No they are not Sunnis. You can read about Sayyid Qutb at Salafi publications just go to Callers & Individuals on the site.

Is there a chart somewhere on history of the creation of the various sects in Islam?

Not that I know of but Salafi Publications has some very good stuff about Shia and other deviated groups just go to deviated groups

Hope this helps

Allah knows best.

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by Yaqinud Din

Saudi Arabia is a Salafi state some of the royal family have said they are Salafi but I'm not sure how many truly are so I can only take them on their word.
Allah knows best.

Only God knows who has what faith.If you can take Saudi a Salfi on on their word,why can't you take others on their word,which would be more logical,moral and spiritual on your part?

[Yaqinud Din]

Only God knows who has what faith.If you can take Saudi a Salfi on on their word,why can't you take others on their word,which would be more logical,moral and spiritual on your part?

I take some of the royal familys word when they say they are Salafi because I don't know them or what they believe so when thet say we are Salafi I take their word. You on the other hand I know what you believe and I know what your so called Prophet believed.

[bananabrain]

I know that the news in the west has it out for Islam I know this because when was the last time you seen the news talk about the N.L.F.T a Baptist Christian Terrorist group in India who have shot school kids and women for not coverting to Christianty.

we're not talking about christianity at the moment, though; we're talking about islam. i am not interested in discussing what the western media think of islam, but rather asking muslims instead. i think that's also a fair enough thing to do - and the question remains.

First off nobody calls themselfs Wahhabi

yeah, i've heard that before. i mean wahhabi in the sense of "follower of the teachings of muhammad ibn abd al-wahhab". you presumably equate this with calling yourself "salafi" - ok then, for the purposes of this discussion, we can agree that the school of thought we are talking about is the salafis.

now, as to the question under discussion, you refer us to the quote from this shaikh salih al-fawzaan. the thing is, this shaikh is, again, a salafi, interpreting a statement of the prophet muhammad, in which he identifies the group he belongs to as being the authentic muslims out of the "73 sects" and says that everyone else is "in the hellfire". but this is still opinion! i am sure you as a salafi consider it authoritative, but i am sure that sufis and shia, to say nothing of non-salafi sunnis, would take issue with this. the other argument you make is that you guys do what the companions of muhammad did and everyone else doesn't. now, again, i'm sure the other sects say exactly the same! which brings us back to square one and you no closer to making any other point than "sez us".

So Bananabrain why is your sect of Judaism right is it because your interpretation of the Torah or your orthodox Scholars interpretation maybe Jews for Jesus is the true Judaism maybe Jesus (pbuh) is your Messiah funny how that works don't ya think. Hey Maybe the Karaite are right the Talmud is bunk

again, we're not talking about judaism. we're talking about islam. if you want to talk about judaism as well (i am perfectly happy to) we'll have to move board - feel free to start a thread over on the judaism board! why not address the question i asked and forget that i'm jewish for the moment? it was a fair enough question.

to save you the trouble and since you brought it up, i feel your point deserves rebuttal. jews for jesus bring stuff from outside of judaism (ie christianity) to try and redefine judaism for jews. they are, as we have already pointed out elsewhere, funded by evangelist christians and are known to be christians in disguise. likewise, the history of the karaite schism is well known. the essential difference is this - *we*, in particular *i*, orthodox or not, do *not* say that all jews who disagree with me (like dauer, for instance) are going to hell. the only sort of jews that say that sort of thing are extreme chasidic groups like the satmar and they are hardly representative, either numerically or influentially. more to the point, jews don't physically attack members of other jewish sects, let alone murder each other or bomb each other's synagogues. in fact we are not even excluded from marrying each other - even karaites! (although i think the beit din might have something to say about a j4j!) perhaps this is because we are accustomed to the idea that we are not the exclusive possessors of the Truth. nor do we say that other people's scriptures are falsified or corrupt.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[aburaees]

Originally Posted by thipps

If you go to visit the Ahmadiyya community, dont forget to point out to your students that the Ahmadiyya community is equivalent to the JWs in Christianity. Im sure they would appreciate that insight.

It's been my perspective that Salafis are the Islamic equivalent of the Jehovah's Witnesses;

• Both movements claim to be returning to the pure religion that everyone else has diverged from.
• Calling oneself a Salafi or a Jehovah's Witness is a contemporary practice, dating no further back than the 18th and 19th centuries respectively.
• Neither the earliest Muslims nor the earliest Christians were in the practice of using such labels.

.

[Yaqinud Din]

we're not talking about christianity at the moment, though; we're talking about islam. i am not interested in discussing what the western media think of islam, but rather asking muslims instead. i think that's also a fair enough thing to do - and the question remains.

Your right me and you are not talking about it me and will are so you can see your way out of are talk on this.

yeah, i've heard that before. i mean wahhabi in the sense of "follower of the teachings of muhammad ibn abd al-wahhab". you presumably equate this with calling yourself "salafi" - ok then, for the purposes of this discussion, we can agree that the school of thought we are talking about is the salafis.

I do not follow Sheikh-ul-Islam Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahhab I follow the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions as did Sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdul-Wahhab.

now, as to the question under discussion, you refer us to the quote from this shaikh salih al-fawzaan. the thing is, this shaikh is, again, a salafi, interpreting a statement of the prophet muhammad, in which he identifies the group he belongs to as being the authentic muslims out of the "73 sects" and says that everyone else is "in the hellfire". but this is still opinion! i am sure you as a salafi consider it authoritative, but i am sure that sufis and shia, to say nothing of non-salafi sunnis, would take issue with this. the other argument you make is that you guys do what the companions of muhammad did and everyone else doesn't. now, again, i'm sure the other sects say exactly the same! which brings us back to square one and you no closer to making any other point than "sez us".

I will now bring proof that Shia and Sufi are non Muslims from their own books and from their Leaders words. I will start with Shia

First because some will say Shia don't believe this I will be useing their own book Al-Kafi so here is a list of some of the great Shia Scholars saying this book is reliable.

AlHur Al'amily said "The authors of the Four Books of shia (Al-Kafi , AlIstibsaar , AlTahzeeb , Mun La YahDuruHu Alfaqeeh) have testified that the Hadiths of their books are accurate (saheeh) , firm and well conducted from the roots that all shia agreed on , and if you consider those scholars (the authors of the four books) are reliable then you must accept their sayings and their narrations . " [Alwasa'el , volume 20 , page 104]

Sharaf'Deen AbdulHussain Mosawy said: "Al-Kafi, AlIsTibSaar, AlTahzeeb and Mun La YahduRuHu Alfaqeeh are *MutawaTirah* and agreed on the accuracy of its contents (the Hadiths) , and Al-Kafi is the oldest , greatest , best and the most accurate one of them " . [The book of AlMuraja'aat , Muraj'ah number 110 ] ..... MutawaTirah = accurate 100% because it was narrated by many narrators .

Muhammad Sadiq AlSaDr said : " Although The Shia are on the unanimity of that The four books (Al-Kafi , AlIsTibSaar , AlTahzeeb and Mun La YahduRuHu Alfaqeeh) are accepted and *all* the narrations in them are accurate ( Saheeh ), But they did not call them by the name (Sihaah ) like AhlSunnah did." [The Book of shia "Kitab alshia" page 127 ]

AlTabRassy said: "Al-Kafi among the four shia books (AlTahzeeb , Al-Kafi , AlIsTibSar , mun la YahDuruhu Alfaqeeh) is like the sun among the stars , and who looked fairly would not need to notice the position of the men in the chain of hadiths in this Book , and if you looked fairly you would feel satisfied and sure that the hadiths are firm and accurate." [MusTaDrak AlWasa'el, volume 3 , page 532]

AlKhomeini said: "Do you think it is enough for our religious life to have its laws summed up in Al-Kafi and then placed upon a shelf?" [Al-Hukumah Al-Islamiyyah page 72]

The Imams have knowledge of All that was given to the angels and the prophets. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.255 )

The Imams know when they will die, and they only die by their choice. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.258 )

The Imams have knowledge of the past and future; and nothing is hidden from them. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.260 )


"Bad'ah" ALLAH tells a lie. (Al Kafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

We are the eyes of the God in his creature and the final authority in all human beings. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 145)
The Hujjat (Ultimate proof) of God can not be established without Imam. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 177)

"Obedience to `Ali is true humility and disobedience to him is disbelief in Allah" (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.54)

"Whoever sets up another Imam besides `Ali and delays `Ali's caliphate is a polytheist" (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.55)

Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Al Kafi, Page No. 420)


Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)


All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)
The false verse "And We made `Ali your in-law" has been added to Surah Al-InShirah . ( Al-Kafi p.289 )

Alkileeni reported that Jabir asked AbuJa`far p.b.u.h : "Why `Ali ibn Aby Talib was named Amir-ul-Mumineen?" AbuJa`far replied: "Allah named him so, and He revealed in His Book " And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed and made them testify as to themselves (saying): Am I not your Lord, Muhammad my messenger and `Ali Amir-ul-Mumineen ?..." (Al-Kafi vol.1 p.412)

What is the Aqeedah of the Shia

Allaah often lies and does mistakes." (USOOL-E-KAAFI, page #328, yaqoob kulaini, vol 1).

The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed. " (Al- Kulaini. AL- KAAFI, p.260)

No one complied the Qur'ân completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge. " (Al- Kulaini. AL- KAAFI, p.227)

"The person who says that the present Quran is complete is a liar because the “complete Quran” was compiled by Hazrat Ali"(Fasl-ul-khitaab fee tahreef kitaab rab-ul- arbab, page #4, Noori Tibri).

Their was a spilt in shia the first group of shia still believe this they are Akbaris see the link to the Akbari website go to rejection of the Usuli sect http://www.akhbari.org/English/1.htm

The Munafiqeen (i.e. Sahaba) took very much out of Quran (took out the verses)."(Ihtijaj-e-tibri, page #382).

When Imaam Mehdi comes he will bring with him the real and original Quran."(Ahsan-ul-maqaal, page #336, safdar Husain najfi).

There is not a single truth possessed by a people saved that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false." (Al- Kulaini. AL- KAAFI, p.399)

Neither we believe the Allah nor the Prophet of the God whose khalifah is Abu Bakr." (Anwar-ul-nomania, page #278).

[Yaqinud Din]

I will get to the Sufi as soon as I can. it sould be said that not all Shia or all Sufis are out of the Fold of Islam but I would say 98% are.

[Yaqinud Din]

I know that not all sufi believe as the Naqshbandi but alot of them hold the same view the fact I don't have the time to post everything that is wrong with all sufi sand all sects just like you don't have the time to read it all.

THE NAQSHBANDIYATAREEQAH UNVEILED

THE ISLAAMIC BELIEF: Allaah is the Only Truth

Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta`aalaa) says in the Qur'ân -

"That is because Allaah - He is the Truth and it is He who gives life to dead." (Qur'ân, Chapter 22, Verse 6)

Banana I will get to the reat of your post soon.

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Aba Yazid al-Bistami is the Truth
On page 15 of the book ‘The Naqshbandi Way’ it reads -

"Whoever recites this Ayah even a single time will attain a high rank and a great position, … he will get what the Prophets and saints could not get, and will arrive at the stage of Aba Yazid al-Bistami, the Imam of the order who said: "I am the Truth (al-Haqq)."

The above statement ‘I am the Truth’ - is a clear example of Shirk (association) in the aspect of the Names and Attributes of Allaah, since Al-Haqq in the definite form, is one of Allaah’s unique attributes and is not shared by any created being or thing unless preceded by the prefix `Abd meaning "Slave of" or "Servant of". (In fact the Mystic al-Hallaaj was publicly executed as an apostate for daring to openly claim divinity in his infamous pronouncement "Anal-Haqq"- I am the Truth.)

THE ISLAAMIC BELIEF: None shares with the command of Allaah

Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta`aalaa) says in the Qur'ân -

Verily, His (Allaah’s) command, when He intends a thing, is only that he says to it, "Be! And it is!" - (Chapter 36, Verse 82); and in another place in the Qur'ân, Allaah says =

"They have no protector other than Him (Allaah); nor does He share His command with any person whatsoever." - (18:26)

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Sheikh shares with the command of Allaah

On page 33 of the book ‘Mercy Oceans - Part 1’, it reads "The Power of the wali is such that he only needs to say Kun (be) and that will be."

The above is another example of Shirk (association) in the aspect of the Lordship of Allaah, since the Islaamic principle of the Lordship of Allaah states that no created being can share in God’s attributes and infinite qualities, and any attempt to give the Divine attributes to creation is referred to as Shirk (association), the antithesis of Tawheed (singling out Allaah alone for worship).

THE ISLAMIC BELIEF:
None could attain the Rank of the Prophets or their Companions

The Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) has said in a well known Hadith that, "The best of people are those living in my generation, and then those who will follow them, and then those who will follow the latter (Saheeh Bukhaaree, Vol 5, Hadith #3, Arabic-English Trans.)

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Certain people could attain a Rank higher than the Prophets and their Companions.

On page 1 of the book ‘The Naqshbandi Way’ it reads,

"Our master the Sheikh says that a person who manages to act on these principles in our times will achieve what earlier generations did not achieve … he who attains an exalted stage and a great rank, such a rank which the Prophets themselves and the companions were unable to attain."

On page 4 of the book ‘the Naqshbandi Way’ it reads

"Especially those who hold to the Prophet’s Sunnah, will attain special stations that weren’t opened to earlier people - not even to the Prophet’s companions.’

The deviant claim of attaining the rank which the Prophets could not is a major deception of the Naqshbandiya as any Muslim with even the basic knowledge of Islaam will confirm. As regards the companions (May Allaah be pleased with them all), the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) in a hadith narrated by Anas bin Maalik (Radhiallaahu Anhu) said -

"After me, you will see others given preference to you, so be patient till you meet me."

Saheeh Bukhaaree, Vol 5., Hadith #137, Arabic-English Trans.)

He (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) also said in reference to his Companions (May Allaah be pleased with them all)

"For by Him in Whose hand is my soul, if you were to spend the like of Uhud or of the mountains in gold, you would not reach their actions." (Saheeh Bukhaaree)

THE ISLAMIC BELIEF: Allaah is above the heavens

Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta`aalaa) says in the Qur'ân -

"Do you feel secure, that He (Allaah), who is above the heavens, will not cause the earth to sink with you." (Qur'ân, Chapter 67, Verse 16).

And in a long Hadith found in Saheeh Muslim, it is narrated that the companion Mu`awiyah ibn al-Hakam, (Radhiallaahu Anhu) slapped his servant girl who used to tend his sheep, and as a result when to the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) and asked what should be done as an atonement for having slapped her. The Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) replied, "Bring her to me" so Mu`awiyah brought her to the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam). The Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) then asked her, "Where is Allaah?" and she replied "Above the Sky" then the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam ) asked her, "Who am I?" and she replied, "You are Allaah’s Messenger", so the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) said, "Free her, for verily she is a true believer." (Saheeh Muslim, Vol 1, Hadith #1094, English Translation)

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Allaah is Everywhere
On page 13 of the book Haqiqat ul Haqqani it reads

"Allaah Almighty is everywhere but specially in the Baitullaah as He has Himself called it the house of Allaah. For it to be called the house of the Lord, the Lord of the house must be in it."

The concept of Allaah being everywhere is not Islaamic as the above Qur’aanic Aayah and the authentic hadith confirm. Indeed if Allaah was everywhere then there would be no need for the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) to go up through the seven skies on the night of Mi`raaj to meet Allaah - he would have been in the direct presence of Allaah in his very own house.

THE ISLAMIC BELIEF: None has the knowledge of the Last Day except Allaah

Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta`aalaa) says in the Qur'ân

Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allaah (alone)." (31:34)

And according to the well known Hadith, where Angel Jibreel (`alaihis salaam) came in the guise of man, we quote the part of the Hadith that is relevant to our matter, after asking about Islaam, Imaan and Ihsaan, Angel Jibreel (`alaihis salaam) asks Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) "then tell me about the hour (meaning the last day)", the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) replied, "The one questioned about it knows no better than the questioner. (Saheeh Muslim, vol 1, Hadith #4, English Translation)

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Sheikh has the knowledge of the Last Day.

In the beginning of page 19 of the book ‘Mercy Oceans - part one’, it reads -

These signs have been given us indication that the Last Day is coming is nearly exactly now …we shall witness that great event within two years."

The above book (Mercy Oceans) was published in 1987 and it I almost nine years since its publication, but the last day is still not witnessed. How could it be when indeed Allaah has clearly stated in the Qur'ân,

"Say None in the heavens and the earth knows the unseen except Allaah."(Qur'ân, Chapter 27, Verse 65)

THE ISLAMIC BELIEF: Believers and disbelievers are not equal.

Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta`aalaa) says in the Qur'ân - the likeness of the two parties (disbelievers and believers) is as the blind and the deaf and the seer and the hearer. Are they equal when compared? Will you not then take heed?" (Qur'ân, Chapter 11, Verse 24)

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Believers and disbelievers are equal
On page 12 of the book ‘the Naqshbandi Way’, it reads ,

Allaah does not distinguish between the non-believer and the faasiq (wrong doer) or between a believer and a Muslim. In fact they are all equal to him."

Furthermore, on page 16 of the same book it reads, "Allaah does not distinguish between a kaafir or a hypocrite or between a saint and a Prophet."

THE ISLAMIC BELIEF: No intermediary between Allaah and Man
Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta`aalaa) says in the Qur'ân,
"And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them in knowledge), I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me."(Qur'ân, Chapter 2, Verse 186)

THE NAQSHBANDI BELIEF: Sheikh is intermediary between Allaah and Man
On page 23 of the book Haqiqat ul Haqqani it reads,

"If there wasn’t Mowlana Sheikh Nazim between us and Sayyidunâ Mahdi (Alai), or between us and the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Sal), or between us and Allaah Almighty, no one would be able to reach to Divine knowledge… this is because Maulana Sheikh Nazim is the intermediary between us and these stations."

[Yaqinud Din]

to save you the trouble and since you brought it up, i feel your point deserves rebuttal. jews for jesus bring stuff from outside of judaism

Thats what I'm saying the so called groups are doing the same as Jews for Jesus (pbuh) they are bringing new teaching in to Islam and I look at my post on shia and Sufi Naqshbandis

Linguistically Bid'ah (innovation) means 'a newly invented matter'.

The Sharee'ah definition of Bid'ah is: "A newly invented way [beliefs or action] in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee'ah (prescribed Law), by which nearness to Allaah is sought, [but] not being supported by any authentic proof - neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it is performed." Al-I'tisaam of ash-Shaatibee (1/37).

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray" Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137).

And he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire." Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58).
T
he Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also warned against the People of Innovation, from befriending, supporting or taking from them saying: "Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of mankind." Reported by Bukhaaree (12/41) and Muslim (9/140)
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[QUOTE]the essential difference is this - *we*, in particular *i*, orthodox or not, do *not* say that all jews who disagree with me (like dauer, for instance) are going to hell. the only sort of jews that say that sort of thing are extreme chasidic groups like the satmar and they are hardly representative[/quote]

I have talked with non Hasidic Orthodox Jews so I know what you have said is false alot of Orthodox Jews don't like or even hate Reform Jews. You seem to want to paint a picture that all the Jewish sect get along lol what a joke.

jews don't physically attack members of other jewish sects, let alone murder each other or bomb each other's synagogues. in fact we are not even excluded from marrying each other -

Bloomberg/April 26, 2006


Bloomberg -- The battle over a $500 million religious empire, marked by beatings, break-ins and a street riot, likely will escalate with yesterday's death of Grand Rabbi Moses Teitelbaum, leader of the ultra-orthodox Satmar sect of Hasidic Jews.

Teitelbaum, 91, died at Manhattan's Mount Sinai Hospital. He had been suffering from spinal cancer and other ailments.

Two of his sons, Aaron and Zalman, have waged a five-year legal battle seeking to control the main congregation's board, each working to succeed their father at the head of the largest Hasidic sect, based in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. At stake is control of synagogues, real estate, businesses, religious schools and the jobs and social services that go with them.
``
This is a fight over power, prestige and patronage,'' said David Pollock, an official with the Jewish Community Relations Council of New York who has worked with the Satmars for the past 20 years. ``Violence has broken out when the legal outcome is unclear, which it is now.'' The insular community was founded in Williamsburg after World War II by the brothers' grand uncle, Joel Teitelbaum, who fled Romania to escape the Nazis. Hasidism, or pietism, arose in the Jewish ghettoes of late 18th century Eastern and Central Europe. Satmar men wear fur hats, beards, white shirts and black or dark blue suits with jackets that hang to their knees.

This will be my last post on this because like I said I'm not going to go over and over with you because it gets me know where I could post every sects wrong believes and you still would not agree with me so this is a waste of my time.