My lack of faith

[Paladin]

Tim,

As I understand it, you feel a little numbness in a spiritual life that once yeilded fruit? I know I have hit many arid stretches in my own path and it isn't uncommon in the writings of some of the worlds great mystics. My favorite has been St. John Of The Cross in his Dark Night Of The Soul. In these writings he talks about the sould losing the intensity and sweetness of her experience with God, rather than just a state of depression that people only call the Dark Night. Here he speaks of it being a blessed event in the life of the soul necessary for the union to come.
The arid stretches of the path can sometimes teach us more that the sweet, full times. Julian of Norwich said that: "All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well" and I tend to believe her. If your path leads you to Buddhist meditaion, or Chi Gong, or even Islam, if you ask God sincerely for a loaf of bread will he hand you a stone?

Peace
Mark

[Tariki]

Paladin has mentioned Julian of Norwich. There are some more words of hers that offer consolation. To Cymbalblade.............and others....on whatever path......

"If there be anywhere on earth a lover of God who is always kept safe, I know nothing of it, for it was not shown to me. But this was shown: that in falling and rising again we are always kept in that same precious love."

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Though I have had many experiences that I would say were proof of God to me, it has to be my choice to remember them when I'm feeling distant from God. It has to be my choice to turn to God each day, whether I'm feeling faithful or not. It has to be my choice to put myself second, and others first (and in so doing, put God first). The more I do this, the more God grants me experience of Him/Her/It. I begin to see God in everything more consistently, and I see evidence of God all around me, and deep within me.

Your whole post, path_of_one, I couldn't have said it better.

I might add here something I learned in my bible reading this morning. I've been reading through the book of Deuteronomy and today's reading was in chapter 11.

"But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did." - Deuteronomy 11:7

I realized that the Israelites had all the evidence of God anyone could ask for. They were delivered from Egypt through the miracles of God in the plagues and the parting of the Red Sea and fed with the manna and quail in the desert, and led by the pillar of fire and the pillar of cloud, which signified God's Presence, all around the wilderness, yet they still refused to acknowledge God or believe God for the Promised Land.

What were they thinking? How much more can God do to get His people to trust Him?

Evidently, miracles are not enough for people to believe in God. He tried that already, and maybe that is why He doesn't perform them anymore. You'll notice that Jesus couldn't perform miracles in certain cities because of unbelief. To me, then, miracles are a confirmation of obedience and belief of God, rather than proof to see if God exists. If you want things to happen in your life that are evedeintial to God working in your life, you're going to have to believe in Him first and obey that which He has said.

I wonder how many here would seek a relationship with God even if He did show Himself in such as a miracle?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

I know a lot of people feel this way, and I hate to say it, but it is partially one's perspective that must change to see God in the physical evidence. One must be open to seeing what is there.

My mother nearly died of an unidentified disease when I was a child. The doctors gave up on her, and we were so poor that we had few options but for her to go home. We prayed. She recovered. On other occasions, we couldn't pay our rent or electricity and prayed. The bills were paid anonymously.

Now, for me, having already decided that God exists, this was further physical evidence of God's existence. For others, who are determined not to be open to the possibility of God existing, they would explain these things away by chance, coincidence, and the like.

It's possible to do that with nearly anything.

I have always had a mystical bent, and experienced the spiritual realm so strongly, so much like everyday life, that to me it is inconceivable to deny it. But I have shared some of these experiences with atheist friends who are determined to chalk such things up to my own mind, to chance, or to imaginings. We see what we allow ourselves to see. I actually know of a few people who, dying from terminal illnesses, experienced angels coming to them. They staunchly remained atheist and insisted the angels were their own minds degenerating into wishful thinking. So not even direct mystical experience is enough proof for someone who is determined to disavow it.

I think that faith is a lot like love. It isn't about feelings and experiences and proof so much as it is really about a choice and follow-through. When we fall out of love with someone, we can either say that we must have been mistaken about them, or we can come to the conclusion that love is really about choice and action (a verb) rather than a feeling we have (a noun). I see faith the same way. Faith is ultimately a choice to follow God, to act in a way that is trusting God and His teachings, whether or not we feel His presence at the moment.

Even as a mystic, I would say that if you put your own feelings and experiences as the basis of your faith, you are bound to a roller coaster. Some days you feel God in everyone and everything, the next day you're struggling with everyday life and you feel distant from God. A better path is to base faith on a choice to trust God, and act consistently in accordance with it whether you feel like it or not. Over time, it's amazing how your feelings and experiences come more and more to be in alignment with your choice to have faith. This is like how acting loving in a marriage when you don't *feel* like you're in love can reignite the feelings of love.

Though I have had many experiences that I would say were proof of God to me, it has to be my choice to remember them when I'm feeling distant from God. It has to be my choice to turn to God each day, whether I'm feeling faithful or not. It has to be my choice to put myself second, and others first (and in so doing, put God first). The more I do this, the more God grants me experience of Him/Her/It. I begin to see God in everything more consistently, and I see evidence of God all around me, and deep within me.

But we have to make the choice to trust. We can seek and not trust, and that won't help us. Just as in a marriage that is difficult we can pray for being in love again, but not begin acting in love, because we don't trust. We want someone else to do it for us- to give us love rather than us acting love. So it is with God. We can ask all we like for proof, but it's basically asking God to do it for us- to give us faith rather than us acting out faith. But it is in the action that we find purpose. When we act in love in a marriage, no matter how difficult, we find reasons to love the person. When we act in faith, we find reasons to have faith in God.

That is an outstanding post Path. I really like how you describe love and faith as choice and action. I wholly agree.

[flowperson]

Thanks for your wisdom Path. This pretty much agrees with my experiences and viewpoint. Yeah...it would be much easier if there were others to do for us and not to have to trust the "unseen and unknown" while making choices and carrying out actions, but experiencing positive outcomes in doing just that very thing every day is what faith is built upon IMO.

flow....

[path_of_one]

Thanks all. Glad it made sense.

I also think this is why faith is not always easy. And sometimes love isn't either. To trust enough to act, to be vulnerable, is difficult and flies against the basic human instinct to wait and see what will happen, protecting the self. And to do it consistently and be patient for response is even harder, whether dealing with God or with our fellow humans.

Fortunately, if we choose it, Christ will help us with both.