must religion come to an end?

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by _Z_

yes that would be the noble thing to do. however could any of us watch our friends and families fall all around us? hopefully people would react to bad times like they did in the great wars, if not then i think it would be more about society level wars rather than global conflict. we only have to look at the state of the world banks etc to see how this could come about, our societies are very fragile ~ glass towers easily fall! i agree though that it would be over quickly even if it takes a while to start.

I don't know, man. The thought of a global catasrophy/war is certainly disturbing, and if it were to happen, I'm not sure I could handle it. [Just being honest] To see my fellow man fall on massive scales [Around me] would damage me deeply, and I'm pretty sure I would be all but useless. Then again, the bible tells me that God will not put anything on us that we cannot handle, so [I am] hopeful in this respect.

The way I see it all playing out, is we will endure some suffering, and that suffering will lead the way for change, or at least trigger change in those whom are suffering the greatest. It took me a lifetime of confusion, and a realization that suffering can be beneficial if/when we take the lessons to heart. I think wisdom comes by trial, as it is through trial that we gain experience, and wish to change our course of action.

I think a peace movement may be beneficial - similar to the 60's but w/o all the tripping, ya know? I think the world would have changed dramaticaly had it not been for the drug usage among our youth. I'm not suggesting that it is overtly wrong, just unwise when society views drug use as a great evil. No one can refute the fact that they do cause harm when abused, no?

I am rambling now, so forgive me....


James

[_Z_]

forums are for rambling
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Then again, the bible tells me that God will not put anything on us that we cannot handle, so [I am] hopeful in this respect.

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yeah, things tend to balance out, i suppose it all depends on the size of the test and the ‘required’ outcome! i expect governments have action plans for worst case scenarios.
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It took me a lifetime of confusion, and a realization that suffering can be beneficial if/when we take the lessons to heart. I think wisdom comes by trial, as it is through trial that we gain experience, and wish to change our course of action.

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same here.
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I think a peace movement may be beneficial - similar to the 60’s but w/o all the tripping, ya know? I think the world would have changed dramaticaly had it not been for the drug usage among our youth. I’m not suggesting that it is overtly wrong, just unwise when society views drug use as a great evil. No one can refute the fact that they do cause harm when abused, no?

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anything taken to extremes usually causes harm. the hippies could have changed things but people were not ready for it. infact pythagoras began a similar movement in southern italy hundreds of years before christ, only for the city to be taken over by aggressive neighbours. this is perhaps why a change of mindset is needed on a massive scale! ...so what would it take to achieve such an end? ...is that gods plan?
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[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by _Z_

anything taken to extremes usually causes harm. the hippies could have changed things but people were not ready for it. infact pythagoras began a similar movement in southern italy hundreds of years before christ, only for the city to be taken over by aggressive neighbours. this is perhaps why a change of mindset is needed on a massive scale! ...so what would it take to achieve such an end? ...is that gods plan?
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I'm thinking of Tibet now....

I think we will need government for quite some time, as there are many peoples still focused on hate, and war - I think we desperately need our military. Call them what you will, but for now they are a nescessary evil [imo] Ministers of God, perhaps? Some may say so. [Soldiers on the wall]

That's the thing tho - at what point do we feel safe to relax, and love one another, seeking peace among all people? I see change in many, but then I look at the whole, and I see that the "snowball" is just beginning. :shrug:

Perhaps it will take a great war to wake us all up, and to get us to seek peace? I hope not, tho. I think God's will is for us to live peacfuly, but how we will get there is pure speculation. If I were only a prophet, then i might have some concrete answers, lol.

James

[_Z_]

poo not talkin then?
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GK

I think we will need government for quite some time, as there are many peoples still focused on hate, and war - I think we desperately need our military. Call them what you will, but for now they are a nescessary evil [imo] Ministers of God, perhaps? Some may say so.

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i agree that we need them ~ for now. it is obvious to me that you cannot have ‘gods soldiers’, it has always been and will be an evil to kill or go to war. we have to remember gods wisdom in teaching us this, i mean all countries and their soldiers [even terrorists] think they are necessary and this or that action is necessary! it will take a monumental human effort to change this and it will happen one way or the other, we are simply between a and b, peace must be ‘b’ or whats the point?
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That’s the thing tho - at what point do we feel safe to relax, and love one another, seeking peace among all people? I see change in many, but then I look at the whole, and I see that the "snowball" is just beginning.

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good point! lets hope the snowball wont roll down the mountain and crash at the bottom.
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Perhaps it will take a great war to wake us all up, and to get us to seek peace?

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they said that about WWI, but it didn’t work. as i see it you cannot do evil to stop evil, it just continues the dualistic roundabout. truth is all about nipping things in the bud - so to say.

rik/Z

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by _Z_

poo not talkin then?
-------------------------
GK

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i agree that we need them ~ for now. it is obvious to me that you cannot have ‘gods soldiers’, it has always been and will be an evil to kill or go to war. we have to remember gods wisdom in teaching us this, i mean all countries and their soldiers [even terrorists] think they are necessary and this or that action is necessary! it will take a monumental human effort to change this and it will happen one way or the other, we are simply between a and b, peace must be ‘b’ or whats the point?

There wouldn't be if we just keep killing each other. You're right about the whole soldiers of God, tho. When will it all end? Human effort - yes!! We have to be the change we want to see - no compromises! If we want peace, we must act in accordance to the principle itslef. Otherwise we become the hypocrites, yes? That being said, it is not always an easy thing to do - especially when faced with danger. Fighting fire with fire only feeds the flame, tho.

they said that about WWI, but it didn’t work. as i see it you cannot do evil to stop evil, it just continues the dualistic roundabout. truth is all about nipping things in the bud - so to say.

rik/Z

Yeah, one of these days we'll get it right, bro. War, or no - peace will prevail [eventually]

James

[_Z_]

That being said, it is not always an easy thing to do - especially when faced with danger. Fighting fire with fire only feeds the flame, tho.

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it is probably the very hardest thing to do! it probably can never be universally achieved, there will always be lions and tiger to protect ourselves from [if we don’t kill them all off]. another concern is; will we become afraid of our own shadows - so to say? i have this idea in the back of my mind that hmm... i saw a documentary about an african woman who could walk amongst wild lions and they would not attack, we have similar accounts from early christians and pagans before them; will we all become like that?

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by _Z_

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it is probably the very hardest thing to do! it probably can never be universally achieved, there will always be lions and tiger to protect ourselves from [if we don’t kill them all off]. another concern is; will we become afraid of our own shadows - so to say? i have this idea in the back of my mind that hmm... i saw a documentary about an african woman who could walk amongst wild lions and they would not attack, we have similar accounts from early christians and pagans before them; will we all become like that?

I don't think we will become afraid per se - I think we will become just the opposite. Once the fear of death is eliminated, [I believe it will be] we will be better able to achieve this peacful existence. Where there is fear, there is usually a fight. It is when we can stand up in the face of danger, and not fear, that the fighting will stop, I think.

Death is just a part of life, and one day we will realize that death is just death - having no sting whatsoever. [Despite what some push on us, namely the concept of hell] ....

.... and now we've come to circle, right back to the question "Must religion come to an end." [I think it must]

James

[_Z_]

I don’t think we will become afraid per se - I think we will become just the opposite. Once the fear of death is eliminated, [I believe it will be] we will be better able to achieve this peaceful existence. Where there is fear, there is usually a fight. It is when we can stand up in the face of danger, and not fear, that the fighting will stop, I think.

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very true. its like a dog will bite you if it is afraid. i don’t think fear of death can be achieved in this world ~ it would need an Ascension of some kind ~ what i say to myself is; ‘death cannot be experienced’ we either end [atheist view] or there is life eternal, there is none of this eternal darkness that we see on tv shows. who needs to fear death if it is the beginning? its just the dying part i am afraid of - to a small degree.
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namely the concept of hell

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hell = ignorance mainly, it is not a place, if it were then it would have been created and i cannot imagine god doing that. paradise as i see it, is something we can make more than where we came from.
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.... and now we’ve come to circle, right back to the question "Must religion come to an end." [I think it must].

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‘religion’ and dogma yes, its essential ingredients, no.
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laters dude, gotta get up for work lols ~ its been a good talk!

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by _Z_

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very true. its like a dog will bite you if it is afraid. i don’t think fear of death can be achieved in this world ~ it would need an Ascension of some kind ~ what i say to myself is; ‘death cannot be experienced’ we either end [atheist view] or there is life eternal, there is none of this eternal darkness that we see on tv shows. who needs to fear death if it is the beginning? its just the dying part i am afraid of - to a small degree.

I fear death to some degree, but one day I will not - at least this is my hope. As I am now, I would fight tooth and nail to keep my life. Not because I have a great fear of death, but because I actually like living, and there is one who needs me [My son] This might sound hypocritical, and perhaps it is considering my views, but alas - I am not yet reached perfection - I am simply not ready to leave this world, especially if this is all we get.
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hell = ignorance mainly, it is not a place, if it were then it would have been created and i cannot imagine god doing that. paradise as i see it, is something we can make more than where we came from.

We pretty much agree, here - but as I have said in the past, I think both heaven, and hell exist in the here and now.
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‘religion’ and dogma yes, its essential ingredients, no.
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laters dude, gotta get up for work lols ~ its been a good talk!

Yup, later, bro...

James

[seattlegal]

My favorite scripture regarding this is from Jeremiah 31:

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

[Gatekeeper]

To expand on your thoughts a bit -


2Co 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.


Romans 5:3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

James

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

To expand on your thoughts a bit -


2Co 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.


Romans 5:3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

James

My favorite New Testament scriptures regarding this!

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

My favorite New Testament scriptures regarding this!

Classic example of why it must end.

- c -

[mee]

Again Jehovah will use human rulers in executing judgment.

"For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished." (Revelation 17:17)

What is God’s "thought"? To arrange for the executioners of Babylon the Great to band together, in order to destroy her completely.

Of course, the rulers’ motive in attacking her will be to carry out their own "one thought." They will feel that it is in their nationalistic interests to turn upon the great harlot.

They may come to view the continued existence of organized religion within their boundaries as a threat to their sovereignty.

But Jehovah will actually be maneuvering matters; they will carry out his thought by destroying his age-old, adulterous enemy at one stroke!—Compare Jeremiah 7:8-11, 34.



REVELATION 18;4
the command now is to GET OUT OF HER

[mee]

The destruction of Babylon the Great is graphically described in the book of Revelation, which states:


"The ten horns that you saw [the kings ruling in the time of the end], and the wild beast [the United Nations], these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire." (Revelation 17:16)




the book of revelation is highly symbolic, but the world wide empire of false religion is soon to be gone .
fire symbolizes total destruction , gone for good