Muslim Religion

[the_truth]

hello mansio,

Every honest reader of the Koran must admit that Muslims are advised to resort to violence only when attacked, and must live peacefully alongside non-believers when not attacked.

I cant agree with you more..

The likes of Bin Ladin and suicide bombers read the same Koran as peaceful Muslims, so I wonder what is the definition of being attacked and by whom.

But bin laden and his likes, interpret the Qur'an to suit their needs,I had just given an example of how easy it is to misinterpret the Qur'an.The real reason behind his global attacks.. i'm not sure.. As a matter of fact there's even a prophecy about these kind of muslims, i'll get you the hadith the next time (if i can find it), God willing..

As muslims we can attack only if attacked.

I don't like the famous verse 5:32 from the Koran (which is inspired by a similar verse from Jewish commentaries) because of the inclusion of "for other than manslaughter or corruption on the earth".

I really don't understand what you are trying to say friend.Are you saying that the guilty must not be punished at all?

There is wisdom behind every verse in the Qura'n.In this case God gives us permission to kill only in these cases (plus also in self-defense)..

But you must first of all notice that killing an innocent man is a serious thing, as mentioned in 5:32.

ok,Let's say that a man murders his wife and gets away with it. you can probably imagine the situation in the woman's family.Such people are ought to be punished.

If you say that the 'death sentence' is too harsh.. let's take the example of adultery (or maybe rape), in Islam such people are to be put to death.. But If the man goes to jail and serves 7-8 years there and then returns, he'll probably do the same thing again,and he escape this time.. but the 'death penalty" frightens him from the very beginning itself and he would never think of doing such things in his life.. the same goes for theft in which the theif's hands are to be cut off. It may sound cruel, but do you know that in mecca, people leave their shops open while they are at the mosque.

It actually gives licence to kill people you deem bringing corruption on earth.

corruption is not an ordinary thing either.In some cases,it's similiar to murder, except that people die in indirect ways.. for example, if the food minister of a particluar country pockets the money needed to feed thousands of people in a village, just to satisfy his needs and live a leisurely life.. people are bound to die out of hunger.It has been happening in countries like India.

About the terror attacks all over the west, we are at a loss to explain to the media as to why people are killing in the name of Allah.. We ourselves don't know why people would do such horrible things.It was also partly our fault for not spreading the true meaning of islam before 9/11.I mean we did, but not really as much as being done today.even after 9/11 Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, becasue people did not even know what islam was in the first place.All they thought was that.. it was a desert religion,bowing done to moon god or something wierd.

But what really is terrorism? It means killing innocent people right? i'm sure you will agree with me.If that is the case, then you see, even countries like USA and Israel are terrorists..because they are murdering civilians (almost everyday now).How come they aren't branded terrorists? this is what media brainwashing does.

Because of the sanctions on Iraq by us president Clinton, i think about a million died out of hunger.. why didn't anyone call bill a terrorist? maybe because he was charming?

There's one more very important thing non-muslims have to understand, it's the value of a muslim life to us.. so if a brother dies in iraq,someone's crying in malaysia..yes,this is why muslims all over the world are always opposing wars in muslim countries.. nationality is below religion.

Muslims are dying from terror attacks too.. please realize that.there's a lot of islamophobia all over the world.Muslims are treated as strange people,even comical people.I myself was delightfully shocked when i found this forum (by accident), and the brotherhood among the people here, is difficult to find anywhere on the net.The people running this forum are doing a great job.If anyone of those guys are reading this, I just want to say thanks to them!

-PEACE!-

[mansio]

I have an explanation of Islamic terrorism. I learned it when I was wondering why the Algerian Islamic insurgents started a civil war (Muslims against Muslims) that killed 150000 people.
It's the theory of dar al-Islam against dar al-Harb. The Islamic insurgents in Algeria consider that the areas they control are true Islamic territory, the dar al-Islam. Everything outside that area is dar al-Harb and can be subjected to attacks and slaughters.
I think that's the theory behind the likes of Bin Ladin. Everyone who isn't siding with them belongs to dar al-Harb and must suffer the consequencies.

[Kelcie]

Hi The Truth,

But what really is terrorism? It means killing innocent people right? i'm sure you will agree with me.If that is the case, then you see, even countries like USA and Israel are terrorists..because they are murdering civilians (almost everyday now).How come they aren't branded terrorists? this is what media brainwashing does.

Killing no matter what guise it is performed under is Mans error not Gods, not Allah. Killing is almost always in the name of a religion, or justice, or whatever excuse one can find. It is how Man has choosen to interpret and use the wisdom of religion that has been the problem as you have so clearly demonstrated. And like livingintheraw says
"The problem here (in my opinion) is with mankind and how we interpret thing to fit our own agendas"
Terrorism, Wars, killings and all things that make for an unhappy existence are in my opinion not necessary to effect change or improve our earthly existence. It is out of ignorance and unawareness that participants in such atrocities can not see there is a more natural way of effecting positive changes. In time however this too will change.

Stay strong to your faith.

Kelcie

[the_truth]

Originally Posted by mansio

I have an explanation of Islamic terrorism. I learned it when I was wondering why the Algerian Islamic insurgents started a civil war (Muslims against Muslims) that killed 150000 people.
It's the theory of dar al-Islam against dar al-Harb. The Islamic insurgents in Algeria consider that the areas they control are true Islamic territory, the dar al-Islam. Everything outside that area is dar al-Harb and can be subjected to attacks and slaughters.
I think that's the theory behind the likes of Bin Ladin. Everyone who isn't siding with them belongs to dar al-Harb and must suffer the consequencies.

dar-al harb is the territory of those who have declared war against muslim nations.But in this case too, the attacks must be only in self-defense.

you may be right about this. I also think this is why OBL kills civilians:

"American history does not distinguish between civilians and military, not even women and children. They are the ones who used bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from destroying all people."-interview in 1998

I think from here,that he bases his attacks on the actions of some of the nations on his hate list.A tit for tat policy (you kill our citizens,we murder yours), and he's using the Quran to justify the kilings and to gain massive support among the muslims in the neighbouring countries.

Only an opinion, I could be wrong.

Sorry i couldn't find the prophecy, i'm still searching for it.

[the_truth]

Hello Kelcie,

Originally Posted by Kelcie

Hi The Truth,



Killing no matter what guise it is performed under is Mans error not Gods, not Allah. Killing is almost always in the name of a religion, or justice, or whatever excuse one can find.

I cannot totally agree with you,that killing is always wrong.You mentioned justice here.have you ever wondered why all over the world there are prisons?Isn't it obvious.. the criminal in jail would be so disgusted and mentally tortured at being confined to a small single room all his life,so that when he comes out,he would never dare do the same crime again.

But it really is happening,The criminal does the same thing again,but this time he esapes the law.

But if a death sentence is issued, he wouldn't dare do it,even if it was to be the first time.Death and the thought of leaving this world frightens him so much.He has only one chance here.

What i'm trying to say is that a killing order may also be used to prevent crime,not many people would be tempted to crime if a 'death sentence' is issued,thus reducing crime rate.

It is how Man has choosen to interpret and use the wisdom of religion that has been the problem as you have so clearly demonstrated. And like livingintheraw says
"The problem here (in my opinion) is with mankind and how we interpret thing to fit our own agendas"

your'e right.no religion or faith teaches to kill.

Terrorism, Wars, killings and all things that make for an unhappy existence are in my opinion not necessary to effect change or improve our earthly existence. It is out of ignorance and unawareness that participants in such atrocities can not see there is a more natural way of effecting positive changes. In time however this too will change.

A lot of people are echoing these same thoughts, but sadly nothings changing Kelcie.I hope things will get better around the world.The worst is still yet to come.

Stay strong to your faith.

God willing,I will. Thank you very much, and take care.

-PEACE!-

[PluckyAli]

It is my understanding as a Catholic, that I'm a non-believer or infidel, and that the people in charge, Imam, cleric, person in charge, or whatever term applies, had (has) declared a "holy jihad (against the infidels of the world)(Holy War) on behalf of the Muslim Religion.

What are your sources?

It is my understanding that all followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to heaven

What?.You sure you not kidding?

(9/11, numerous threats, suicide bombings, kidnapping and bombings).

what they have to do with islam?.Killing any innocent is prohibited,suicidie boming is stricly prohibited in islam.So first make sure are you talking about islam or are you talking about muslims or are you just talking about politics?.9/11,suicide boming are so long topics to discuss

I cannot imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven.

False belief on false assumption.Anyway are you trying to compare islam with christianity,if so you are welcome in comparative section.

I have a problem with the Muslim Religion being a peaceful religion when possibly you, but not limited to your brother Imams, people in charge, person in charge or clerics are telling your followers to kill me.

As i said before no muslim is allowed to kill any innocent in any cirumstances.But i am going to kill you.

It is very strange to me that you would be welcomed in any church in America, and would not have to worry about being there.
There would be no armed guards or military around and you would not be searched at the door. I cannot say that about visiting a Mosque in the east, why is that?

Are you again comparing?.You are welcome in comparative section.

Lastly I leave just one question: Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I'm going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?

How the heck is that question?.and you sound like it's so hard to answer.Once again you misunderstood Allah.Does that help you to know coptic christians call God Allah.btw how can you compare jesus with God?.

[PluckyAli]

As i said before no muslim is allowed to kill any innocent in any cirumstances.But i am going to kill you.

hi and peace everyone,
ok it seems people take things very seriously here,i have been told i am a bit harsh in my posts.there is a reason for that,i will explain some day."but i am going to kill you" was written as a humourous statement,i don't mean that.ok.

[AbdAlRahman]

Every book from God [ Bible , torah and Quran ] Has violence in it, Like friend sayd , God only comanded us to protect ower selfes in self defence.

[AbdAlRahman]

And i suggest not to judge the Qu'Ran by what a human does , everyone can name names , but i suggest not to .

[Katyana1980]

I think many people in this kind of discussion get bogged down in historical discussions about who did what to whom. There isn't one religion that hasn't had some kind of atrocity committed in its name. The fact being that every individual has a different interpretation of their religion and sadly some people allow anger, frustration and self-interest to skew their interpretations.

I also think that the use of language leads to so many misunderstandings. Which is one reason why I'm not comfortable with the role of scriptures in religion.

In these sorts of discussions, we should be listening more to what the average muslim, christian, jew etc. have to say about their religion, not those with more extreme views.

[Amica]

If you believe in more than One God, than you are infidel/unbeliever.
If you do not practice and believe the teachings of One God (whether by Bible or Qur'an), then yes, you are unbeliever.

You speak of Islam and Muslims not being peaceful, but what about terrorism from non-Muslims:
a) Ireland Catholics have terrorised England for quiet some while
b) China has stolen someone else homeland (Tibet) and has a decency not to even attempt to discuss it
c) Christians (both Catholics and Orthodox) have killed 200,000 Muslims in Bosnia and made 1 million of them refugees
d) 80% of world's refugees are Muslims by faith--so I guess that speaks volume
e) WWII and Hitler's agenda about Jews
f) Stalin and his murderous rampage against Jews and Muslims during his time
g) Chechnya--we only hear about Russian Christians suffering, well what about Muslims? Why is it ok for West to be against Communism but not Muslims?
h) Muslim Palestinians and Christian Palestinians have suffered greately under Zionist occupation, etc.

Do not forget that there are Muslims in the world who are suffering because of "Muslims":
a) Sadaam had killed thousands
b) Muslims are killed in suicide bombings just as much as non-Muslims
c) There are Muslims around the globe who do not go killing everyone they think is unbeliever
d) Muslims are opressed by the regimes supported by West, such as Saudi dynasty and Mubarak regimes.

etc.

Please educate yourself before posting how Islam is violent and how Muslims are agressors to everyone in the world.