Music and Worship

[Prober]

When I was a kid, my favorite part of church was the music. I remember staring up through the stained glass windows, my brain lit up with sound!

Thinking "heaven must have great music".

How important is music (or sound) in your thoughts of worship or meditation?

[Faithfulservant]

OOh I love this question! Worship is my favorite part of church and after some investigating... I know why

go to crosswalk and do a search of all the places "sing" and you can see why...it pleases Him.

Eph 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

[China Cat Sunflower]

I always hated church, but I loved the pipe organ music. I've still got a serious thing for pipe organ music.

Chris

[pfw]

I love Gregorian Chant- helps me to relax and focus.

Organ music I always find very stirring and it quickens my pulse.

Hymns and Carols and Psalms-bore me... (sorry, but they do)

[China Cat Sunflower]

I attended a pentacostal church for a short while. They had a thumpin' band, and everyone would just get down with the Holy Spirit. There would be people dancing in the aisles. It was great! I'd never experienced anything like that before. Talk about some serious praise, they had it going on!

Chris

[flowperson]

In most Protestant churches, the music directors are considered to be members of the clergy. That's a pretty important part of the institution.

flow....

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I attended a pentacostal church for a short while. They had a thumpin' band, and everyone would just get down with the Holy Spirit. There would be people dancing in the aisles. It was great! I'd never experienced anything like that before. Talk about some serious praise, they had it going on!

Chris

Hey Chris
I'm crurious about this, well actually I'm downright skeptical. What makes you think it was the Holy Spirit they were getting down with?

[Faithfulservant]

If you've never felt it you wouldnt understand.. if you have you wouldnt question it ever again.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Hey Chris
I'm crurious about this, well actually I'm downright skeptical. What makes you think it was the Holy Spirit they were getting down with?

I dunno, figure of speech maybe, but that's how they felt about it, and to tell you the truth I felt it too.

Chris

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I dunno, figure of speech maybe, but that's how they felt about it, and to tell you the truth I felt it too.

Chris

I guess it's not the answer I was looking for, but fair enough.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

If you've never felt it you wouldnt understand.. if you have you wouldnt question it ever again.

Come on, an answer like that will do nothing other than strengthen my skepticism.
No.1, I have been in several different churches on several different occasions when people have been "moved by the spirit". On many occasions what I witnessed, what I felt, was pretensiousness and the effects of crowd mentality. On one occasion I witnessed something that I felt to be a little darker.
No.2, As humans we are able to fool ourselves into believing many things. If people in certain churches want to believe they are getting down with the Holy Spirit* then they will be able to make themselves believe that. I am sure that this is especially true in churches where, 1) the congregation is encouraged, actively or passively, to dance in the aisles, faint, or be overcome by a sudden urge to sit down pray, and 2) those who do not engage in this kind of behavior are looked down upon as second class Christians.


*Though I am using Chris's words, I am not calling into question his experience in his pentecostal church. I was not there and, even if I was, would have no right to do so.

[Faithfulservant]

I am not a member of a pentecostal church. Theres a book by Chuck Smith called Charisma vs Charismania.. It does a really good job of answering this very issue for some people.

My only other way of explaining this is that when the Jewish High Priest would enter the holy of holies to sacrifice for the sins of Israel..that High Priest experienced the presence of the Lord.. the glory of the Lord is in that inner temple... When a person is born again and baptized by the Spirit of God they experience that very same thing because they are given entrance into the holy of holies which is becoming that inner temple of God. God resides in you with that baptism and when a congregation of believers is in heartfelt sincere worship of Jesus Christ.. the Lords presence is among them its basically the more the merrier because when 2 or more are gathered in His name He IS among them. The only thing I can say is if someone is not feeling it and others are feeling it.. I would question ask myself why.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

I am not a member of a pentecostal church. Theres a book by Chuck Smith called Charisma vs Charismania.. It does a really good job of answering this very issue for some people.

My only other way of explaining this is that when the Jewish High Priest would enter the holy of holies to sacrifice for the sins of Israel..that High Priest experienced the presence of the Lord.. the glory of the Lord is in that inner temple... When a person is born again and baptized by the Spirit of God they experience that very same thing because they are given entrance into the holy of holies which is becoming that inner temple of God. God resides in you with that baptism and when a congregation of believers is in heartfelt sincere worship of Jesus Christ.. the Lords presence is among them its basically the more the merrier because when 2 or more are gathered in His name He IS among them. The only thing I can say is if someone is not feeling it and others are feeling it.. I would question ask myself why.

Exactly. I'm sure many others would also ask themselves why, and some, scared of the possible answer, might make themselves feel it.

BTW I never claimed that you were a member of a pentecostal church, neither were the examples I gave in any way exclusive to pentecostal churches.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hey Cav,

You ever get that 2 o'clock in the morning, massive realization thing? That moment when something you've been pondering gels and you have that prickly necked AHA! feeling? Like you know you've grasped a golden nugget of truth, and the proof is that certain kind of giddy feeling of gut assured "rightness". That's kinda how it feels getting swept up in a big "praise" fest. Sure, it's crowd dynamics. People feeding off of each other's emotional rush, and it swirls and builds. But it feels GREAT! It feels like you release your burden and walk out much lighter. Makes you fell like a kid with new sneakers. It feels like the two O'clock thing, only bigger and warmer, probably because you're sharing everyone else's energy. And I was playing trumpet in the band, so I was toatlly catching the groove!

Anyway, I stopped going to the Penacostal church because I moved away, and because they really preached some junk theology. But I haven't forgotten the good feeling, and I have lovely memories of some of the lovliest people I've ever met. Man, the after church potlucks were out of this world!

Chris

[cavalier]

Hey Chris

I certainly remember being a kid bouncing down the road in my new sneakers, and yes, it sure did feel good.
My point of contention though isn't, and has never been, what the feeling is, just whether its attributable to the Holy Spirit.
Since people of other faiths also experience these great, religiously based highs, can they all be a result of the Holy Spirit? Possibly you would say yes (I don't know), that all religions lead, or can lead, to the same God. Many though do not hold this view, many believe that Christianity is the only way. I have a problem with people like this using these experiences as some kind of validation of their religion, while at the same denying similar experiences in those of other religions. I have a problem with it because it's just a weak argument. Either the experiences of those in other religions are valid which would suggest that Christianity isn't the only path to God (or isn't a path to God at all), or they are not valid, but if they are not then questions have to asked of the experiences of Christians also.