More about Hell

[shadowman]

christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



-----------------------------------------------------------

talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive

[Faithfulservant]

His shoulders are broad enough for your anger and hatred. He died for you. He shed His blood for you. He came to this earth deserving everything.. had nothing and gave it all when He died for you.

For God so Loved YOU that He sent His only begotten Son that If YOU believe in Him YOU would not perish but live forever and ever with HIM..

[shadowman]

that sounds passive aggressive. Im not angry anymore. Only a little at the threats from god.

[Faithfulservant]

When you stand at the foot of His throne.. I wonder if you will ask in a whiny voice why He had to be so mean to you and to all these other nice people that hated His guts.

You are a scoffer and Im sorry I really have nothing to say other than tell you His message which is the best news you will ever hear in this life.

The choice is ultimately yours.

[shadowman]

oh, how quaint. another threat.

"listen (punk) this is the best thing you are ever gonna get"

this god of yours is not friendly

[cyberpi]

SM, it seems like you are begging for attention more loudly now. What do you want?

Jesus is a person in a book. It is 2000 year old history. Are you perhaps projecting on a book something that you experienced with people who call themselves Christian today?

If you are looking for advice, I suggest looking at personal relationships. Ask yourself: Are you honest with people and yourself? Have you left things unconfessed? Are you faithful to anyone or do you have faith in anyone? Who or what do you love? People to forgive? Are you patient? Have you experienced marriage? Have children?

The eternal damnation in the gospels is eternal 'judgment'. Perhaps a way to be in eternal judgment is to not hear judgment and to refute ways to learn and change to be better. Do you seriously consider yourself perfected and unable to learn anything new from God? Your words here sound passive aggressive but if you are being a trickster then I think you are just being dishonest. My opinion of course but I would seek perfection of personal relationships and ask God for guidance along the way.

[mee]

Originally Posted by shadowman

christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



-----------------------------------------------------------

talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive

And thats what false christianity does for people , it does not draw them closer to God it draws them away . i have found that when a person is taking in accurate knowledge about Jehovah God and his son Jesus christ there is no dreadful fear of torture, because the true God does not teach this evil manmade doctrine . accurate knowledge works wonders and only brings respect to the Almighty.

[Dondi]

How do you know that hell isn't a natural default for people who do not know God? If God is light, warmth, joy, peace, love, where in His presence is no pain, no sorrow, no sin, no more tears, then Hell would be the direct opposite: outer darkness, pain, sorrow, wailing and gnashing of teeth, despair, unrest, hate. God is the sustainer of life, being Creator of it, and so only in His presence will we be able to find life. God is not out to toss people like fodder in the wastebasket of hell, rather it is a result of people not hanging on to the essential component of life, namely His Spirit. you equate Hell as a place, but I tend to view it as a life (or rather, living death) of the absence of God, who is able to resurrect us into incorruptable bodies and redeemed souls. But we still have to make that choice, the decision to come to Him is still ours.

[17th Angel]

I still don't get that... is it REALLY a "choice"?

You alright there Dondi? Act like a piggy and oink... Or I'll shoot you in the freaking face with my 12 gauge.... *cocks weapon*

You'd act like piggy.... Cause you wouldn't want a shell in the face... So it isn't really a choice.... You are being forced.... To "please" someone who has this power to do harm.... The poor guy that works his fingers to the bone on his own personel corner store... Doesn't hand over his hard earned cash to some armed robber because it's the choice... He does it from force.

But in this situation it is WORSE than that... You are not doing any harm.. You have been allowed to do A, A is fine, you have been allowed to do that... It's a choice But I -really- want you to do B not A... I am lying to you really... Sure I have said "heeey I am allowing you to do A go for it!" But you MUST do B really or DIE!$£"!$!"£

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I still don't get that... is it REALLY a "choice"?

You alright there Dondi? Act like a piggy and oink... Or I'll shoot you in the freaking face with my 12 gauge.... *cocks weapon*

You'd act like piggy.... Cause you wouldn't want a shell in the face... So it isn't really a choice.... You are being forced.... To "please" someone who has this power to do harm.... The poor guy that works his fingers to the bone on his own personel corner store... Doesn't hand over his hard earned cash to some armed robber because it's the choice... He does it from force.

But in this situation it is WORSE than that... You are not doing any harm.. You have been allowed to do A, A is fine, you have been allowed to do that... It's a choice But I -really- want you to do B not A... I am lying to you really... Sure I have said "heeey I am allowing you to do A go for it!" But you MUST do B really or DIE!$£"!$!"£

You've got it backwards, 17th. We are piggies now. We need to be the humans that God intended us to be. And we are holding our own gun up to our heads. But God wants to take it away.

[17th Angel]

We're holding the gun? I am pretty sure, god holds the gun.

[Francis king]

he doesn't hold a gun... he holds out a flower and says... hello

[17th Angel]

YUP!

Hello, here is a flower for you... For your coffin! HAH! I know I gave you the free will to do whatever... Well that is kinda coming back to bite you in the A. You're going to hell for doing what you wished, which is what I allowed you to do omgz!!! lolz kthx bye!

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

YUP!

Hello, here is a flower for you... For your coffin! HAH! I know I gave you the free will to do whatever... Well that is kinda coming back to bite you in the A. You're going to hell for doing what you wished, which is what I allowed you to do omgz!!! lolz kthx bye!

What would heaven be like is there wasn't an improvement in the human race? Would be a lot like here on earth, wouldn't it: wars, poverty, pain, suffering, brought on by the treatment of ourselves against each other. Why even bother with the concept of heaven then if it's not ideal. God doesn't wish to get rid of people, just the sin, which we choose to do. All sin is is not conforming to that heavenly ideal. Trouble is, in the current state we are in, we cannot conform to that ideal on our own. I am as helpless as the next guy in trying to live up to that ideal. But through the Spirit, I'm learning how to love others as myself, to take consideration of others before my own interests (which is hard, I know). It would be so much easier to just go my own way (though is it really in the long run), and do as my will dictates. But I know myself, and I know I'll make so many grave mistakes (as happened in the past) and d!ck things up. Nowhere near perfection, yet I'm closer to fine seeking the higher good through reliance on God rather than all by myself. I'm learning how to be less selfish and discovering the benefits as a result. My relationships are stronger, there is a greater sense of purpose and fulfillment in helping others, and I'm less prone to anger and depression that plagued me in the past. Not that I'm immune to those things, but there a sense of, I dunno, "rightness" in the direction I'm going, a nobler path than I've travelled on in the past. I know this is all anecdotal on my part, but if I thought I was unique in my experience, I'd probably just consider myself lucky. But I've seen positive changes in others, including members of my own family that still amaze me.

And I don't think this experience is unique to the Christian persuation. There are other religions that rely on God, or Higher Being, of what have you that can attest to the same. Some time ago I was reading of the same phenomenom from the testimony of a Muslim girl who related how when she relied on God things changed in her life. But that experience came from a moment in her life when she dug deep down into her heart. I think God can transcend religious dogma that sometimes keeps God in our head rather than our heart. Ya know what I mean?

[17th Angel]

If this Earth based creature some how floats off to some magicial spiritual realm.... Wouldn't god have to change you? Tinker with you... Sure Dondi you believe in god but you sure as hell ain't no saint... You have flaws... You have faults... Who doesn't right? Wouldn't god need to tinker with you? to make you "perfect"?