More about Hell

[LeoSalinas22]

[quote=shadowman;103991]

you could just explain what you initially posted.

weren't you the one asking (mumbling)"why doesn't he just appear and we all change?" well, God did just that in Exodus and did the israelites change? no. they kept clinging on to egypt and its riches. same as we seem to cling on to this world and its "riches". don't you read the bible, shadow? or do you just judge God by what you read in newspapers, see on tv or movies or what other people tell you? read the bible for yourself shadow. "gird your loins like an able-bodied man."
I Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

also I find it funny that god lets people eat meat in the bible.

really? why do you think that is funny?

humans dont have the teeth structure to properly eat meat. and we are not biologically fit to eat it raw. It should be noted that we also do not relish biting into the jugular of an animal to kill it, we do not relish the taste of raw meat, and most of us dont relish the the idea of brutally killing our food, and feeling hot blod dribble down our chins. are we naturally supposed to be eating meat at all? some people think not. but this is debateable

gee, it could be because man actually cooks their food and has sharp tools to cut their food with! why are you comparing our eating habits to that of animals.? i take it you don't like hamburgers or bar-b-que?

[mee]

Originally Posted by shadowman

christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



-----------------------------------------------------------

talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive

What Really Is Hell? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

[mee]

Hellfire—Is

It Part of Divine Justice?

Have you ever seen someone tortured? I hope not. Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent. What, though, of torture inflicted by God? Can you imagine such a thing? Yet, this is exactly what is implied by the teaching of hellfire, an official doctrine in many religions.

Imagine, for a moment, the following horrific scene: A person is being roasted on a hot iron plate. In his agony he screams for mercy, but nobody listens. The torture goes on and on, hour after hour, day after day—without pause!

Whatever crime the victim may have committed, would not your heart go out to him? What of the one who ordered the torture? Could he be a loving person? In no way! Love is merciful and shows pity. A loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them!

Nevertheless, many religions teach that God tortures sinners in an eternal hellfire. This, it is claimed, is divine justice. If that is true, who created that terrible place of eternal torment? And who is responsible for the excruciating agonies inflicted there? The answers would seem obvious. If such a place really exists, then God would have to be the creator of it, and he would be responsible for what happens there.

Can you accept that? The Bible says: "God is love." (1 John 4:8) Would a God of love inflict torture that even humans with any measure of decency find revolting? Surely not!

An

Unreasonable Teaching

Still, many believe that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone perpetrated extreme wickedness for his whole lifetime, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the limited number of sins that he can commit in a lifetime.

Who knows the truth about what happens after we die? Only God can reveal this information, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible. Here is what the Bible says: "As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust." (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die.

In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? No. "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) It is impossible for the dead, "conscious of nothing at all," to experience the agonies of hellfire.

A

Harmful Doctrine

Some maintain that the teaching of hellfire is useful, true or not. Why? They say it serves as a deterrent to wrongdoing. Is that true? Well, is the crime rate in regions where people believe in hellfire lower than in other places? Hardly! In fact, the doctrine of hellfire is very harmful. Will a person who believes that God torments people view torture as something abhorrent? Why should he? Those believing in a cruel god often become cruel like their god.

In whatever way a reasonable person may look at the matter, he cannot accept the existence of a hell of torment. Logic rebels against it. Human nature is repelled by it. More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists. When a person dies, "he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish."—Psalm 146:4.

What

Punishment for Sin?

Does that mean that we are not punished for our sins? No, that is not the case. Our holy God punishes sinners, but he does not torture them. And when sinners repent, he forgives them. What is the punishment for sin? The Bible gives a forthright answer: "The wages sin pays is death." (Romans 6:23) Life is a gift from God. When we sin we no longer deserve that gift, and we die.

You may ask: ‘How is that just? Why, everyone dies!’ That is true because we are all sinners. In effect, no one deserves life. "Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."—Romans 5:12.

At this point you may be thinking: ‘If we all sin and so we all die, why should we try to be virtuous? It seems that the wicked man is treated exactly the same as the man who tries to serve God.’ But that is not the case. Although we are all sinners, God forgives those who sincerely repent and try to change their ways. He rewards our efforts to ‘make our minds over’ and to do good. (Romans 12:2) These truths are the basis of a marvelous hope.

A

Reward for the Good

We cease to exist when we die. But that does not mean that everything is finished. The faithful man Job knew that he would go to the grave (Sheol) when he died. But listen to his prayer to God: "O that in Sheol you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you."—Job 14:13-15.

Job believed that if he was faithful until death, he would be remembered by God and resurrected. This was the belief of all of God’s servants in ancient times. Jesus himself confirmed this hope when he said: "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."—John 5:28, 29.

When will the resurrection begin? According to the Bible, very soon. Bible prophecy indicates that in 1914 this world entered into its "last days." (2 Timothy 3:1) In what many call ‘the end of the world,’ God will very shortly remove wickedness and establish a new world under heavenly rulership.—Matthew, chapter 24; Mark, chapter 13; Luke, chapter 21; Revelation 16:14.

The result will be a paradise covering the whole earth and inhabited by those who have sincerely tried to serve God. Wicked people will not burn in hellfire, but they will have no place in the coming Paradise. At Psalm 37:10, 11, we read: "The wicked one will be no more; and you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."

Is all of this just a dream? No, it is God’s promise. In the Bible we read: "I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.’"—Revelation 21:3, 4.

Do you believe these words? You should. God’s word always comes true. (Isaiah 55:11)

[shadowman]

doesnt the bible also say that ungodly men are destroyed. and those that sin shall die and perish?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by shadowman

doesnt the bible also say that ungodly men are destroyed. and those that sin shall die and perish?

Indeed, doesn't it also say; If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned!!$"£!$

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by shadowman

humans dont have the teeth structure to properly eat meat.

The incisors at the front are for eating flesh. The molars at the back are for eating vegetable matter. Humans are ominivores, able to eat "all", should they choose to.

Omnivore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


s.

[17th Angel]

I love the meat..... looooove the meat, but we are best suited to all that green crap... I'd agree that indeed we have some small petty equipment... But, I'd rather be able to rip an animals freaking limb of with my nashers... Rather then cut it into iddy liddle bits...

[shadowman]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Indeed, doesn't it also say; If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned!!$"£!$

yup. I suppose that the 7th day adventists or jahovas witnesses say that the fire is a consuming or destroying or purifying one. Once i read somewhere that fire is often used in the bible to shpw the extent of the destruction of the lord. and that sometimes the words have a connotation of being fixing, or purifying, but I could be wrong here...

[17th Angel]

I think it is to symbolise destruction more than to purify... That's the job of water..... (Kind of pagan huh? )

Fire shows that if you burn wood.... Nothing of that wood remains as it was, simple a pile of ash...... The wood has gone... It cannot come back.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by shadowman

yup. I suppose that the 7th day adventists or jahovas witnesses say that the fire is a consuming or destroying or purifying one. Once i read somewhere that fire is often used in the bible to shpw the extent of the destruction of the lord. and that sometimes the words have a connotation of being fixing, or purifying, but I could be wrong here...

I believe you are correct.

"But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:" Malachi 3:2

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Hellfire—Is

It Part of Divine Justice?

Have you ever seen someone tortured? I hope not. Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent. What, though, of torture inflicted by God? Can you imagine such a thing? Yet, this is exactly what is implied by the teaching of hellfire, an official doctrine in many religions.

Imagine, for a moment, the following horrific scene: A person is being roasted on a hot iron plate. In his agony he screams for mercy, but nobody listens. The torture goes on and on, hour after hour, day after day—without pause!

Whatever crime the victim may have committed, would not your heart go out to him? What of the one who ordered the torture? Could he be a loving person? In no way! Love is merciful and shows pity. A loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them!

Nevertheless, many religions teach that God tortures sinners in an eternal hellfire. This, it is claimed, is divine justice. If that is true, who created that terrible place of eternal torment? And who is responsible for the excruciating agonies inflicted there? The answers would seem obvious. If such a place really exists, then God would have to be the creator of it, and he would be responsible for what happens there.

Can you accept that? The Bible says: "God is love." (1 John 4:8) Would a God of love inflict torture that even humans with any measure of decency find revolting? Surely not!

An

Unreasonable Teaching

Still, many believe that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone perpetrated extreme wickedness for his whole lifetime, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the limited number of sins that he can commit in a lifetime.

Who knows the truth about what happens after we die? Only God can reveal this information, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible. Here is what the Bible says: "As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust." (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die.

In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? No. "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) It is impossible for the dead, "conscious of nothing at all," to experience the agonies of hellfire.

A

Harmful Doctrine

Some maintain that the teaching of hellfire is useful, true or not. Why? They say it serves as a deterrent to wrongdoing. Is that true? Well, is the crime rate in regions where people believe in hellfire lower than in other places? Hardly! In fact, the doctrine of hellfire is very harmful. Will a person who believes that God torments people view torture as something abhorrent? Why should he? Those believing in a cruel god often become cruel like their god.

In whatever way a reasonable person may look at the matter, he cannot accept the existence of a hell of torment. Logic rebels against it. Human nature is repelled by it. More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists. When a person dies, "he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish."—Psalm 146:4.

What

Punishment for Sin?

Does that mean that we are not punished for our sins? No, that is not the case. Our holy God punishes sinners, but he does not torture them. And when sinners repent, he forgives them. What is the punishment for sin? The Bible gives a forthright answer: "The wages sin pays is death." (Romans 6:23) Life is a gift from God. When we sin we no longer deserve that gift, and we die.

You may ask: ‘How is that just? Why, everyone dies!’ That is true because we are all sinners. In effect, no one deserves life. "Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."—Romans 5:12.

At this point you may be thinking: ‘If we all sin and so we all die, why should we try to be virtuous? It seems that the wicked man is treated exactly the same as the man who tries to serve God.’ But that is not the case. Although we are all sinners, God forgives those who sincerely repent and try to change their ways. He rewards our efforts to ‘make our minds over’ and to do good. (Romans 12:2) These truths are the basis of a marvelous hope.

A

Reward for the Good

We cease to exist when we die. But that does not mean that everything is finished. The faithful man Job knew that he would go to the grave (Sheol) when he died. But listen to his prayer to God: "O that in Sheol you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you."—Job 14:13-15.

Job believed that if he was faithful until death, he would be remembered by God and resurrected. This was the belief of all of God’s servants in ancient times. Jesus himself confirmed this hope when he said: "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."—John 5:28, 29.

When will the resurrection begin? According to the Bible, very soon. Bible prophecy indicates that in 1914 this world entered into its "last days." (2 Timothy 3:1) In what many call ‘the end of the world,’ God will very shortly remove wickedness and establish a new world under heavenly rulership.—Matthew, chapter 24; Mark, chapter 13; Luke, chapter 21; Revelation 16:14.

The result will be a paradise covering the whole earth and inhabited by those who have sincerely tried to serve God. Wicked people will not burn in hellfire, but they will have no place in the coming Paradise. At Psalm 37:10, 11, we read: "The wicked one will be no more; and you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."

Is all of this just a dream? No, it is God’s promise. In the Bible we read: "I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.’"—Revelation 21:3, 4.

Do you believe these words? You should. God’s word always comes true. (Isaiah 55:11)

ENOUGH MEE! You are violating other's beliefs...UNACCEPTABLE!

Don't do it again...

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

ENOUGH MEE! You are violating other's beliefs...UNACCEPTABLE!

Don't do it again...

v/r

Q

its good to see another side of the story , would you not agree? or are you saying that to put another side of the story over is unacceptable? why does it violate others beliefs? people say things against my beliefs many times but i would never dream of saying to them ENOUGH IT IS UNACCEPTABLE , if they are true to their beliefs it should not worry or concern them if someone puts over a different thought to their own thoughts. my belief as one of Jehovahs witnesses is that the bible does NOT Teach a litral hellfire . if people want to believe that their God roasts them for ever SO BE IT .each to their own .

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

its good to see another side of the story , would you not agree? or are you saying that to put another side of the story over is unacceptable? why does it violate others beliefs? people say things against my beliefs many times but i would never dream of saying to them ENOUGH IT IS UNACCEPTABLE , if they are true to their beliefs it should not worry or concern them if someone puts over a different thought to their own thoughts. my belief as one of Jehovahs witnesses is that the bible does NOT Teach a litral hellfire . if people want to believe that their God roasts them for ever SO BE IT .each to their own .

There is a difference between presenting another side to the story and criticizing/dismissing other's beliefs as false. It seems to me that you wouldn't care to do what may have been done to you in the past, I should think.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

There is a difference between presenting another side to the story and criticizing/dismissing other's beliefs as false. It seems to me that you wouldn't care to do what may have been done to you in the past, I should think.

v/r

Q

there is bible teaching and false bible teaching ,and that is a fact. there is only one inspired word of God , either it teaches burning and roasting people forever ,or it doesnt. and i am glad to say that it doesnt. the God of the bible is a God of love ,and the God of the bible is a God of justice, no man could live long enough on this earth and do enough really bad things to justify being roasted forever and ever and ever.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

there is bible teaching and false bible teaching ,and that is a fact. there is only one inspired word of God , either it teaches burning and roasting people forever ,or it doesnt. and i am glad to say that it doesnt. the God of the bible is a God of love ,and the God of the bible is a God of justice, no man could live long enough on this earth and do enough really bad things to justify being roasted forever and ever and ever.

You, can not prove false biblical teaching. Therefore you can not judge, just like you do not want others judging you.

Indeed if anyone would have even close to the original teachings of the earliest bible, it would be perhaps the Egyptian Coptics, Christian Aramaics, or Etheopians...certainly not younger faiths, mayhap not even the Catholic faith.

But don't get irritated with me, since I've defended you a long time, and don't go radical on me or others, when you've been as patient as Job for the past two to three years...and now you're becoming short in temper, and quick to judge? Not like you...

v/r

Q