More about Hell - Page 3

LeoSalinas22 · 04-25-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

if a person doesnt wqant to believe in god why does that make this perfect loving being so angry? if he wants to help, really, he could help anyway. after death, remove the wool from the persons eyes. or maybe he could show up tangibly and honestly before death and get all the people in the world to realize who he is and what he wants.

Psalms 78 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law; And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them. Marvellous things did he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan. He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and he made the waters to stand as an heap. In the daytime also he led them with a cloud, and all the night with a light of fire. He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers. And they sinned yet more against him by provoking the most High in the wilderness. And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
one thing people always ask is, "if God is so powerful, then why doesn't He just appear and we will all change." well, you know what, He did appear and guess what, no one cared. they cared for awhile and they just reverted back to their sinful ways. imagine just for a bit, how much heartbreak and dissappointment this brought Him. if you can't understand how much this breaks His heart, well my friend, you are just being self-righteous and close minded and have a loooooong way to go before you can wake up in His likeness.

LeoSalinas22 · 04-25-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

I lvoe the book of job

i am glad to hear that, man, because you remind me so much of job in his trying to justify himself more than our Father in heaven.

Faithfulservant · 04-25-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

I lvoe the book of job

Maybe because you had a starring role in it. And I dont mean Job.

shadowman · 04-26-2007, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dondi

Good, because that is what God is looking for.

You are still thinking on linear terms, thinking it is all about hell. But I tell you that it is all about the human condition. Try to be absolutely good for one week. Go ahead, try it. Bet you fail, if you are honest. The standard for good is there as an ideal, something to shoot for. Of course we will fail if we don't have His Good in us. And even if we are relying on His Spirit, as long as we are in imperfect flesh, we will be tempted. His Spirit is available to guide us and give us strength and if we learn from Him. We will see ourselves in sin less and less. But that is what Grace is for: to learn how to love without condemnation. Salvations is salvation for our souls. But if you don't see yourself as sick, you won't seek a doctor. Some patients die because they are in denial about their condition and end up seeking help way too late.

this is side stepping my original point.

he has created a reality where millions of people are gonna end up in hell. why? is any explanation good enough? I dont see how it can be.

shadowman · 04-26-2007, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

Psalms 78 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law; And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them. Marvellous things did he in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan. He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and he made the waters to stand as an heap. In the daytime also he led them with a cloud, and all the night with a light of fire. He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. He brought streams also out of the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers. And they sinned yet more against him by provoking the most High in the wilderness. And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
one thing people always ask is, "if God is so powerful, then why doesn't He just appear and we will all change." well, you know what, He did appear and guess what, no one cared. they cared for awhile and they just reverted back to their sinful ways. imagine just for a bit, how much heartbreak and dissappointment this brought Him. if you can't understand how much this breaks His heart, well my friend, you are just being self-righteous and close minded and have a loooooong way to go before you can wake up in His likeness.

Why not appear again? If He's omnipotent, then the effort required to appear once is exactly the same as the effort required to appear an infinite number of times. If He wants to avoid forcing Himself to send people to Hell for not believing in Him, why not have that appearance be right before the guy starts reverting back to sinful ways?

When He showed Himself to some people at one point in time, why didn't He just simultaneously show Himself to all other people at all other points in time? Since He tossed out the whole "all blessed is he who does not see but believes" garbage anyways and it requires the same fraction of His infinite power to do either, why let some get the personal vision and not others?

shadowman · 04-26-2007, 01:59 AM

it seems if god really wanted no one in hell, there would be no one in hell. the whole thing that irks me is god has created people, he doesnt want them in hell, but the world he creates lets people go to hell, and he appears to know it. it doesnt add up. is this almost a proof of the inexistance of christianity?

I mean, forget showing up to keep people out of hell.

get rid of this whole fallen world off the bat! he has this whole game set up with a choice involved and the only out come is that some people are gonna make the wrong choice. why have the whole game in the firstplace?

cyberpi · 04-26-2007, 02:15 AM

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Originally Posted by shadowman

Am I taking the message of this 2000 year old book the wrong way?

With or without a book, by your words it is the spirit of Faith and Faithfulness that troubles you. Issues with control, authority, not having all the information... most of the things contrived about passive aggressive behavior all have to do with faith. I think some people understand it but by the English word today they wrongly use the word to mean a belief, a religion, a book, or a doctrine... which really misguides people.

Try placing yourself inside the gospel: hearing the rumors of this Jesus guy and that he can heal people, but you don't know the whole story and there is conjecture. Maybe you've got this illness and probably should go see him. Maybe some common sense says to go see the man but that would mean getting up in front of all those people, reducing your dignity, asking for help, placing yourself into judgment, maybe being asked some questions about your sins. Do you have sins? A person who has ailments are viewed as a person possibly afflicted by God for his sins. So you really don't know. Maybe in your mind you are thinking he could be a voodoo doctor... or that your friends are telling lies with all of their gossip and wives' tales. Why should you lower yourself to that man's level? Why should you trust him? Why should you trust the large crowd that follows him around? Maybe he won't really heal you and then you would have to fake it or admit it in front of all those people. They are a cult... they are not the majority. If there is fear it is fear of the Roman Empire, the lawyers, tax collectors, and the priests. You've also heard what they do to people. That John guy who was baptizing people got beheaded. Maybe you are glad that you were not seen being baptized by that guy... besides, what use was there in admitting sins while getting wet? People screw each other all the time so you have got to be on your guard, right... or do you? That Jesus guy, what does the leader of that cult have that you don't?

If I were you, I would study Faith in my life with the people that I see. Think of the exercises that build Faith between people, and then DO them. Faith requires action. Just saying it brings to mind all the things I had better go do: the other side of it... being Faithful.

shadowman · 04-26-2007, 02:18 AM

thank you, your insights are always fascinating

Dor · 04-26-2007, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I think this thread and OP is inappropriate for this forum.

I'm recommending that it be reviewed by the staff...but I'm not going to close it now as I see it has lead to some interesting discussion.

I found it pretty freaking tacky. Ive just figured there are people on here that are here strictly to drag more people away so I try to ignore these threads.

Prober · 04-26-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I think this thread and OP is inappropriate for this forum.

I'm recommending that it be reviewed by the staff...but I'm not going to close it now as I see it has lead to some interesting discussion.

I find the title offensive. The discussion has been as expected (imo).

lunamoth · 04-26-2007, 02:58 AM

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Originally Posted by Prober

I find the title offensive. The discussion has been as expected (imo).

I agree. I've changed the title for now but the thread is still under review.

cyberpi · 04-26-2007, 03:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Dor

I found it pretty freaking tacky. Ive just figured there are people on here that are here strictly to drag more people away so I try to ignore these threads.

So what are you sharing... love? hatred? apathy?

I miss the passion and vigor of Silas. Was he dragged away?

Dor · 04-26-2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So what are you sharing... love? hatred? apathy?

I miss the passion and vigor of Silas. Was he dragged away?

Yes Silas had his stay ended...

Prober · 04-26-2007, 03:19 AM

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Originally Posted by cyberpi

I miss the passion and vigor of Silas.

Silas provoked me to thought many times and I thoughly enjoyed him. He had flavor.

Dor · 04-26-2007, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberpi

So what are you sharing... love? hatred? apathy?

Romans 1
28. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30. slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31. they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."