morality within evolution

[alexa]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Now that I think about it, does tribal morality translate well into modern civil society?

I was sure you will love it.

Maybe this is the answer you are looking for. Let's think about it ! The tribal societies have no choice than to take nature as a guide of their morality. This is the beginning ! The indians didn't know to write and to read. All their heritage had been transmitted orally.

In my opinion, the moral as we can see it presently, it's the result of the human society. Am I wrong ?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Alexa!

Thank you.

Originally Posted by alexa

I was sure you will love it.

I do!

Maybe this is the answer you are looking for. Let's think about it ! The tribal societies have no choice than to take nature as a guide of their morality. This is the beginning ! The indians didn't know to write and to read. All their heritage had been transmitted orally.

Of course, we do now know how to read and write. Morality is still taught in childhood, mainly from our parents, whether "tribal" or "civil."

In my opinion, the moral as we can see it presently, it's the result of the human society. Am I wrong ?

That is what I have long thought, that morality was the result of a society realizing the benefit of working together. It is difficult to thrive alone, it is easier for all involved if everyone pulls together for the benefit of the group. Some societies formalized morality in the form of laws, whether religious or secular (Code of Hammurabi, Ten Commandments). Other societies kept an informal oral tradition, such as the tribal societies you brought up. I would think that situations and circumstances govern what a moral code is made up of. So, is nature based morality a valid moral code for a modern civil society? I do not wish to form an opinion just yet, but it would seem so far that nature based morality is counter to what a civil society requires. Am I mistaken?

[alexa]

Good morning Juan,

O.K. So the show must go on !

Let's see what we've got till now :

1. in the tribal societies, with an oral tradition, the nature is the most important factor in their lives. The morality grows up from nature.

2. in the pagan religions they don't necessary worship the nature, but it's important as a calendar for their activities. They are polytheistic.

I canot attribute no. 3 for the moment. I didn't see the role of nature in buddism, taoism, judaism and christianity.

Do you have any ideea, where we should look next ?

Regards,

Alexa

[Ciel]

Thank you all. It's a fine balance in conception of understanding happening here.
Juantoo3, you wrote;" I wonder where and how "spirit" figures into the equation."
Spirit enters when there is respect. It is necessary to have depth of feeling and empathy for the natural worlds. But also to realise that humanity is able to see a greater overview, when there is balance in the soul and spirit, a balanced natural environment is created, and respect is born from both sides. The spiritual and interlect of morality in humanity and the unassuming morality of nature. The importance in the understanding that all things were made to work together in illumination.

[alexa]

Welcome Ciel in our conversation. God knows it's not an easy stuff to debate. But we are trying to see each part of the world as detached as possible.

[alexa]

Juan, I think I have found something interesting as a tool of our investigation.

The Kluckhohn-Murray aphorism (1953):

Every human is in certain respects
a. like all other humans.
b. like some other humans.
c. like no other human.

Major Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents


Last modified 6 September 2002.

(Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number. This list is sociological/statistical in perspective.)

1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
5. Buddhism: 360 million
6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
7. primal-indigenous: 150 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 14 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 6 million
14. Jainism: 4 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 3 million
17. Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
18. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
19. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
20. Rastafarianism: 700 thousand
21. Scientology: 600 thousand
22. Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

The adherent counts presented in the list above are estimates of the number of people who have at least a minimal level of self-identification as adherents of the religion. Levels of participation vary within all groups. These numbers tend toward the high end of reasonable worldwide estimates. Valid arguments can be made for different figures, but if the same criteria are used for all groups, the relative order should be the same. Further details and sources are available below and in the Adherents.com main database.

The Adherents.com "Major Religions" list presented on this web page differs from classical lists because it draws more from an extremely large body of contemporary affiliation data, rather than relying heavily on the lists and texts of past commentators (Hudson Smith, Noss, Barrett, etc.).

There are many distinct religions or religious movements which have more adherents than some of the classical world religions, but which are not part of the classical list for various reasons. These reasons include:

• the religions which are not included on the classical list are too new (Scientology, Neo-Paganism)
  
• they are concentrated in only one country (Cao Dai, Ch'ondogyo, Tenrikyo)
  
• they lack identifiable central organizations or unifying scriptural literature (Neo-Paganism, New Age, Spiritism)
  
• their adherents primarily name a different, more established traditional religion as their religious preference (most practitioners of Vodoun are nominal Catholics, practitioners of New Age religions are often nominally Protestant, Catholic or Jewish)
  
• their religion is still strongly associated with a major religion from which it arose, but no longer wishes to be an official part of (Tenrikyo and many other Japanese New Religious Movements, as well as many religions emerging from Indian/Hindu environments)

See more on : www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I begun this morning a classification, but I think I have to reconsider. The area of reserche is large now, that it will take a while to go through it.

Like I said before. I really like the challenge !

I'll wait for your comments.

Regards,

Alexa

[Ciel]

Alexa, thank you,

'We are trying to see each part of the world as detached as possible

But maybe it all becomes a little too complex untill it is seen as a whole.

Love Ciel

[alexa]

Originally Posted by Ciel

But maybe it all becomes a little too complex untill it is seen as a whole.

Hello again, Ciel,

Believe me, I try to see the whole in all world's religions.

Here you have a quote from the first post of Juantoo3. Maybe this can help to understand where we try so hardly to get in our posts.

Can morality be the result of natural evolution? Or, as Gould implies, is this a matter of human psycho-social development that cannot be adequately addressed by scientific scholarship? Can nature based religions rightfully claim scientific basis for their moralities? Or should the whole subject of moral development be held aside, restricted to the "magisteria" of religion?

Vajradhara has helped us with some of eastern religions (buddism and taoism).

We had also a short look into christian, pagan religions and native american's beliefs.

Please feel free to choose any of the world's religion and try to find the role of nature in evolution and its basic moral code.

The purpose is to understand the evolution of the morality and not to judge any religion.

Thanks a lot for your participation ,

Alexa

[Ciel]

Thank you Alexa,
Having read and contemplated all posts on this thread,there is a wealth of information here, well researched. My attempt was to contribute from the domain of one outside recognised religeon, maybe call it enigma, or an enlightened ordinary Joe, who has given the original quote the greatest consideration.
Love Ciel

[alexa]

Originally Posted by Ciel

My attempt was to contribute from the domain of one outside recognised religeon, maybe call it enigma, or an enlightened ordinary Joe, who has given the original quote the greatest consideration.

Do you mean a new religion ?

[Ciel]

Alexa,
There is God also outside the boundaries of religeon.

[lunamoth]

Hello, I hope you do not mind my chirping in here. The conversation is very interesting!

Reading the OP I thought of the book The Moral Animal. I read it several years ago and promptly passed it on, so I don't have it on hand. But, I recall that its hypothesis was that morality is rooted in biology and subject to evolution/natural selection pressures. The chapters that left the deepest imprint on my somewhat hard head were those about how morality is linked to child bearing/rearing and that much of what we think of as morality can be putatively explained by the large amount of energy it takes to successfully raise a human to reproductive age.

[alexa]

LOL Ciel,

I know there is a God. I'm a Christian.

If you the patience to read the previsous posts, you can see there are a lot of religions on Earth and not all of them have a God. At least not as described in judaism and christianity.

This dosn't mean they are wrong. We have to consider the history and the tradition in each country. We all have our path to follow, so we are not aloud to say one path is good and the other is wrong.

The morality in society evolves like any ordinary science. And this is exactly what we try to follow.

[alexa]

Hello lunamoth,

You are welcome !

Can you remember more about the theory in this book ?

Alexa

[Ciel]

Alexa, it's really okay.
Yes God is seen in many different ways and many different interpretations.There is no question on the validity of connection.
I understand and respect we are all of different intention.
I see morality as heartfelt, filtered through God, soul, spirit.
If this can be called the science of life, then yes.
In peace.Ciel