Mind of the Brahmin – the thought waves of the future!

[pohaikawahine]

there are three words for "mana" and they all have different meanings depending on the vocal intonation .... I don't know how to show the symbols on a computer, but there will be a line over the vowel which is called a macron and this differentiates the words ....so let me try,

"mana" with no macrons means power pssed by man, but originating in the supernatural and thus always imbued with a mystic quality.

"mana" with a macron over the first 'a' means trait or characteristic

"mana" with marons over both "a's" means dry or desert

there is a lot to the subject of mana, but one piece that you might find interesting was than when a person of specailized talent was about to die they would expell their breath into a chosen successor's mouth .... this passing on of mana that made him an expert in an art or craft was in thisway directly passed on to another ....the mana imparted by the 'ha' (breath) kept the art alive.

the universal energy which might be closer to the concept of chi or pranna would probably be 'kukui' which is a form of psychic energy, the energy of light that travels through the body in meditation or prayer. Everything is a manifestation of divine energy and this energy is manifested in form by using the sacred name of god which was never uttered except by one priest in any given generation on each of the islands ....

hope this helps .... he hawai'i au, poh

[Agnideva]

Hi Z,

Originally Posted by _Z_

I like the idea of different philosophies for different ways. I am surprised at the idea of ‘something that is not of god’, as it draws lines! [dualistic?]

Dualism indeed! Hinduism has very strong dualistic schools as well. Hindu dualism speaks of eternal differences between God, soul and matter. So I guess the monistic philosophers speak of the impossibility of ‘something that is not of God’ to answer to the dualistic arguments.

I suppose we can’t get away from hierarchies like the ‘higher and lower’,the subtle and the gross though.

Guess not! . The Vedanta admits that ultimately there is no higher, lower, gross, subtle, unity or duality. I see philosophies as only guides, only ways to explain things so they begin to make sense. Even then it is hard to grasp concepts sometimes. In monism, we may say think of the oneness as an ocean without shores, without an ocean floor. This seems like a great analogy, but only until you realize that you’re imagining the ocean from the surface

the infinite eye can see any part of time, history and future do not exist. Then there is the power of attraction, so what we put out into the world either comes back or ‘slots into’ another place in time – usually the near future.
With this I am wondering if the Brahmin can indeed create the future or at least aspects of it?

You're thinking omniscience? I would say that a realized being at that level would be able to do any of these. I wonder though whether that being would have any desire/need to do so.

A.

[Agnideva]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

Hey Agnideva, so what goes on in Hindu Temples? I always thought you have to worship some sort of God (like Shiva, Vishnu, ect.). Are there any temples that just teach out about vedic philosophy about the Brahman as well as teach you yoga and the path to the Brahman? How do Hindu temples work?

Silver, Hindu temples are places of external worship. Traditional temples will have a central shrine with an image of Ishvara, and subsidiary shrines of Mahâdevas. People may go to temple to pray individually, or to participate in a group worship ceremony called a pujâ. Pujâs are led by priests and involve chanting mantras from the Vedas and other texts, and conclude with a ceremony called ârati. After the pujâ, devotees may sing devotional hymns called bhajans, then perform circumambulation and prostration. On rare occasions, ancient vedic fire rituals called yajnas are also held in temples. The priests do not lecture or give sermons, unless specifically asked. They perform the rituals and give a blessing to the attendees. We consider rituals an important part of our religion because they are an external manifestation of devotion, and are performed to train us from the outside in (as Vajra said about Buddhism ). In addition, we believe that the ritual worship allows for a communion, an experience of Divine presence and love. In other words, ritual worship is an external form of yoga.

Generally, people learn about philosophy and metaphysics by svâdhyâya (self-study), or better yet from a Guru. There are many âshrams that teach yoga practices, meditation and philosophy. These âshrams are run mostly by monks and sometimes include small temple of their own. Examples of such organizations are: Vedanta Society, Sivananda Yoga Vedanta Center, Siddha Yoga, Chinmaya Mission, Arsha Vidya, etc. Some take a universalist approach, others are more traditional.

Hope that helps.

[_Z_]

Pohaikawahine,



That was very interesting indeed! I would have thought - if i may - that mana [all kinds but I am not sure on the desert version? Is this like ‘empty’?], and ‘kukui’ were both different forms of the same thing [universal spirit] – perhaps like branches of the same tree. I am just thinking that the craft/skill passed on through the vehicle of breath [I liked that one!] would have been imbedded in the Ether/spirit/prana/kukui.

What do you think on this?



Thank you! For reply.



Agniveda, hi

The Vedanta admits that ultimately there is no higher, lower, gross, subtle, unity or duality.

Yes like the stem of the tree of life, beyond infinity [nothingness/everythingness – undifferentiated], then all things depart into the multiplicity [the illusion of].

I see philosophies as only guides, only ways to explain things so they begin to make sense

Yes, it is better to understand the flow of eternal currents [Ether streams], than that which we form around them i.e. knowledge, words meanings – philosophy etc.

You're thinking omniscience?

Well omniscience would concern perceptions from which knowledge is built [see above] yet to perceive a thing and to be one with the ‘silent meaning’ [eternal currents – and or the very ‘thing’ itself] of that thing is completely different. The spirit ‘knows’ as we know our head, body and limbs! Because it is the covert essence that is the ‘reality’ within the illusion! Thus the infinite eye sees by being one with – it is ‘the canvas upon which ‘reality’ is painted’. So we will have to invent another word!

Perhaps the truth of it is that; Brahmins and druids etc. tune into the flow of eternal currents rather than directing them, hmm actually no – one can change some things by thought, yet other currents are too strong or impervious to change [at least from us].



Z

[Silverbackman]

Originally Posted by Agnideva

Silver, Hindu temples are places of external worship. Traditional temples will have a central shrine with an image of Ishvara, and subsidiary shrines of Mahâdevas. People may go to temple to pray individually, or to participate in a group worship ceremony called a pujâ. Pujâs are led by priests and involve chanting mantras from the Vedas and other texts, and conclude with a ceremony called ârati. After the pujâ, devotees may sing devotional hymns called bhajans, then perform circumambulation and prostration. On rare occasions, ancient vedic fire rituals called yajnas are also held in temples. The priests do not lecture or give sermons, unless specifically asked. They perform the rituals and give a blessing to the attendees. We consider rituals an important part of our religion because they are an external manifestation of devotion, and are performed to train us from the outside in (as Vajra said about Buddhism ). In addition, we believe that the ritual worship allows for a communion, an experience of Divine presence and love. In other words, ritual worship is an external form of yoga.

Generally, people learn about philosophy and metaphysics by svâdhyâya (self-study), or better yet from a Guru. There are many âshrams that teach yoga practices, meditation and philosophy. These âshrams are run mostly by monks and sometimes include small temple of their own. Examples of such organizations are: Vedanta Society, Sivananda Yoga Vedanta Center, Siddha Yoga, Chinmaya Mission, Arsha Vidya, etc. Some take a universalist approach, others are more traditional.

Hope that helps.

So meditation and mind training exercises are classified as internal yoga, while rituals and chants out loud and stuff are external yoga? Harnessing the prana can only be attained by internal yoga, and internal yoga has been shown by many to reduce stress and stuff.

So is yogasana a big part of yoga preperation for Hindus? Or has that aspect only be magnified in the West? Do all yoga followers know yogasana?

[Agnideva]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

So meditation and mind training exercises are classified as internal yoga, while rituals and chants out loud and stuff are external yoga?

Yes. As far as Hindu practice is concerned, external and internal yoga go together.

So is yogasana a big part of yoga preperation for Hindus? Or has that aspect only be magnified in the West? Do all yoga followers know yogasana?

As for yogâsana, it was not as widely used as people think. Yogâsana was a practice of Râja yogis and Hatha yogis. But now, thanks to its commercialization, it is becoming more and more common.

A.

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Pohaikawahine,



That was very interesting indeed! I would have thought - if i may - that mana [all kinds but I am not sure on the desert version? Is this like ‘empty’?], and ‘kukui’ were both different forms of the same thing [universal spirit] – perhaps like branches of the same tree. I am just thinking that the craft/skill passed on through the vehicle of breath [I liked that one!] would have been imbedded in the Ether/spirit/prana/kukui.

What do you think on this?

Z - it is very possible that both terms are different forms of the universal spirit .... the hawaiian culture has a strong tradition connected with the movement of energy through space and time and with many cultures there can be many words to describe very subtle aspects of the same thing .... like many different words for "snow" if you live in that environment, or "ocean" etc.... we become more finite in our descriptions when we use these resources .... so it is with energy .... even the word Hawaii has many meanings .... "ha" can mean breath or the number four, "wa" can be related to a canoe or a space of time between two events, etc.... so deeply hidden in the word Hawaii there are several meanings, one of which is four great periods of time in the creation of the world .... and our word "aloha" which is pretty much universally known is actually related to the exchange of breath, you will notice the sound "ha" at the end which again is breath or the number four .... and actually comes closer to the interpretation of an exchange of breath face-to-face .... "alo" can mean (among many meanings) the front,the face or the presence of one .... it almost sounds biblical when you break it down such as the meeting of god face to face .... but this word did not come with the missionaries .... we had it long before .... and all its inner meanings which are generally not revealed .... aloha nui, poh

[_Z_]

Pohaika, hi



Thank you for your fascinating insights! I must admit I never realised there was so much to your culture. Aloha is very affectionate in sound and meaning, I had a wonderful metaphoric visualisation of it as I read, I like the way meanings are brought together in a kind of poetic manner!



How do you see the thought waves of the future? I often equate air, breath & thought as the one – then the spirit is a vast weather landscape, what goes on in our minds is a vortex in that system – in weather, everything affects everything else!



Respect



Z

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Pohaika, hi

How do you see the thought waves of the future? I often equate air, breath & thought as the one – then the spirit is a vast weather landscape, what goes on in our minds is a vortex in that system – in weather, everything affects everything else!



Respect



Z

Z - very interesting, I never really looked at air, breath and thought in that manner but it would make a lot of sense .... each vowel sound calls forth an element in the hawaiian language, and the last sound "u" (pronounced as in spanish 'ooh') is the human element that can call forth all the other elements .... so in effect the vortex in our minds could easily effect the outer vortex in the material world .... I met an old man on a small island in the south pacific who was one of the last of his clan that could control the weather .... he could stand on the beach when a storm approached his island (this was part of the small islands of the Marshall Island chain) and force the storm to change courses .... he possessed many other abilities and there were no young people wanting to learn the old ways, so I never heard if he passed any of his knowledge on .... his descendants have the ability, but may never learn how to use it .... he passed something on to me, but it will be held for my grandson when he is a little older ....

back to the vortex, in the Lakota tradition, Native American culture, the building of a tipi is actually the re-creation of the world (each part of the process is a ritual that re-enacts the creation) ... for example the first 3 poles come together in a triangle and recreate a star, this is the centering, so once the star is realized and we are centered, then orientation can occur because a triumph over chaos can occur .. then 7 more are added which create west, north, east, south, above, below and center, etc. Ultimately you have 12 poles which symbolize the life cycle and even more. The Sun Dance is the voluntary sacrifice in the renewal of life on earth and in the tribe and once dances around the holy tree. The Sun Dancer create a vortex of power with its apex pointed up (just like the tipi) .... so what you create in the building of the tipi and the sun dance is a vortex with the heavens or the upper world creating the upper part of the vortex which is created also in the mind ....

I believe deeply that we can change our world by changing our mind .... and we have the ability to bring our minds under control through the control of our breath ..... so all that you say makes sense to me .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[_Z_]

Pohaika

And the last sound "u" (pronounced as in Spanish 'ooh') is the human element that can call forth all the other elements

I read somewhere of ‘hu’ being similar, as is the druidic notion of Awen, = the original sound of the sound tree [the seed and the heart of the tree].



May I ask: do you have a complete alphabet or a link to one?

Who was one of the last of his clan that could control the weathe

r



I know many people who can control the weather [or flow with its directions], not quite to that degree though! Me for instance e.g. I made [asked the spirits of that sky] a rainy day sunny for my sisters wedding. I think anyone who knows spirit will learn these things. Nice story!



The pre druidic peoples of Britain also done circle dancing! I wonder if it too was to create a vortex? They also drew spirals and circles on stones in temples – perhaps that too is something similar.



You are teaching me much about my ancient culture

I believe deeply that we can change our world by changing our mind

I completely agree! After all, the mind is everywhere and a part of everything, thus if a given thing is susceptible to change by mind influence, then it should be possible.

It is surprising just how much is susceptible.



Thanx



Z

[pohaikawahine]

aloha e Z - you asked if I had a complete alphabet or a link to one .... I am assuming you are talking about the hawaiian alphabet? You will probably not be able to find it on a link or in a book .... but I'll be happy to share what I was taught because the kapu has been released ....

there are not too many letters in the hawaiian alphabet, so this won't take long ....

vowels A indicates spiritual light or elemental fire - the sun
E indicates spiritual movement or elemental rhythm - the wind
I indicates spiritual emotions or elemental waters - salt and fresh
waters
O indicates spiritual foundation or elemental substanced - the earth
U indicates spiritual humanity to give positive or negative meaning
to the creative elements

CONSONANT SOUNDS indicate how the elements are to be used

K indicates a positive masculine application to the vowel.
KU = a masculine, forceful, forthright expression of
humanity as an example
H indicates a negative, feminine, introspective or emotional
expression of a vowel. HU = an internal expression of U.
HUPO = means ignorance because it indicates that darkness
(PO) is an integral part of the U being discussed - and the
darkness is inward - of the mind. PO is the darkness of
year (winter) when all goes beneath the ground to be reborn
in AO (the light or spring). PO is also an expression of the
void or chaos.
L indicates and elemental inattention or a negative effect of
the elements on man - not necessarily bad - for man can
apply his mind to do something about it. L applies to I (the
elemental waters) = LI which indicates that the emotions or
the elements will make the body (u) shiver.
M indicates a gathering within, conservation, or a containing
of the essence of the vowels it became attached to. The
word MALAMA means to preserve, to keep and to care for
and the word has a strong spiritual feeling since all the
vowels are the A indicating spiritual light of intelligence.
N indicates the opposite of M. It indicates an outward force or
projection of its energy.
P indicates touching upon - both physical and spiritual. The PA-
LAMA (fence of the LAMA wood) touches upon the space of the area it
encloses. the PA-hu (DRUM) is an instrument created by man to touch and express or create sound (an emotional expression)
W indicates the timeless - the unknown and unknowable except spiritually or through faith. It indicates the esoteric, therefore, and can indicate time/space rather than the material.

This is how I learned it from a woman called Pilahi Paki, a great teacher and spiritual wahine .... she has passed over now but continues to guide many through her words and teachings .... I hope this is helpful to you, there is so much more, but that is not possible to write it all in such a small space .... I am glad that you have learned something of my culture and even something new of yours .... it is always a pleasure to share .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[_Z_]

Pohaika



Thank you very much! I have saved to disk, I will study this most fascinating of alphabets. And indeed, thank you for sharing your wisdom that has been handed to you!

Z