Mesopotamian Origins

[Bandit]

when people decided to/could write does not necessarily prove that the oldest writing is the origin of the story/myth or belief.
for all we know, the flood myth/stories, is the same & could be from the original 8, on the ark in the bible writings, first through oral tradition.

like i really dont care either way.
2 pennies for the pot

[Satanist]

Originally Posted by Bandit

when people decided to/could write does not necessarily prove that the oldest writing is the origin of the story/myth or belief.
for all we know, the flood myth/stories, is the same & could be from the original 8, on the ark in the bible writings, first through oral tradition.

like i really dont care either way.
2 pennies for the pot

Are you saying bible writings were the first writings?

I really didn't catch what you meant other than that myths could predate writing.
But I correct that both writing and the myths predate biblic religion
and nothing oral can be biblic becouse Bible means "book".
In addition most religious books collect and summarize tradiotions.
They do not keep the same collection or association as before writing.
The same counts for any modern research that go from research into book form.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Satanist

Are you saying bible writings were the first writings?

I really didn't catch what you meant other than that myths could predate writing..

up to here we agree and it does not matter to me what writings came first.

But I correct that both writing and the myths predate biblic religion
and nothing oral can be biblic becouse Bible means "book".
In addition most religious books collect and summarize tradiotions.
They do not keep the same collection or association as before writing.
The same counts for any modern research that go from research into book form.

well, you have your opinions & i have mine.

[FriendRob]

Originally Posted by Gnostradamus

Greetings,

Does anyone share my view that Greco-Roman faiths, Hindu faiths, and Abrahamic faiths can all be traced back to Mesopotamia?

Greetings, Gnostradamus! (Great username, BTW) I agree w/Abrahamic faiths as derived from Mesopotamia - see, for example, F. Cross,Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic.
But Greco-Roman faiths, Hindu faiths? I'm not so sure. Do you have any evidence?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, FriendRob!

I agree w/Abrahamic faiths as derived from Mesopotamia...But Greco-Roman faiths, Hindu faiths? I'm not so sure. Do you have any evidence?

I am not Gnostradamus, but I can answer your question. Alexander Hislop wrote a book in the middle 1800's that pulled together the known archeology of the time. Since it was first published, the heirs of Mr. Hislop have allowed the book to be amended to take in more recent finds. That book is "The Two Babylons." It is every bit as scholarly and exhaustive as Frazer's "The Golden Bough." In short, you will find your connections, ad nauseum...

The proof is in museums around the world.

I hope this helps.

[Gnostradamus]

Originally Posted by FriendRob

Greetings, Gnostradamus! (Great username, BTW) I agree w/Abrahamic faiths as derived from Mesopotamia - see, for example, F. Cross,Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic.
But Greco-Roman faiths, Hindu faiths? I'm not so sure. Do you have any evidence?

Hi FriendRob, I don't really have any evidence, just observations.
If you look at the pantheons of the Greco-Roman, Vedic, and Mesopotamian (Sumerian) traditions, they kind of follow the same structure where they have a Lord (Zeus/Jupiter/Indra/Enlil) which at some point in time was considered to be the supreme ruler of the gods...
a heavenly father and a mother earth (Cronus/Saturn/Dyaus Pita/Anu)...
whole heaven and whole earth (Uranus/Varuna/Anshar)...
and primordial/chaos deities (Chaos/Kasyapa/Apsu).

[mee]

The Bible reveals that man’s original home was "a garden in Eden." (Ge 2:8; Its indicated location is relatively near the place of mankind’s early post-Flood civilization. The view generally accepted by scholars is expressed by P. J. Wiseman as follows: "All the real evidence we have, that of Genesis, archaeology, and the traditions of men, points to the Mesopotamian plain as the oldest home of man. Far Eastern civilization, whether Chinese or Indian, cannot compete with this land in the antiquity of its peoples, for it can easily sustain its claim to be the cradle of civilization."—New Discoveries in Babylonia About Genesis, 1949, p. 28.

[mee]

Ancient Babylon was outstandingly noted for its religion and its defiance of Jehovah

[mee]

Did

the Cross Come From Babylon?

"Babylonia," "Chaldea," and "Mesopotamia" all refer to the same general area of what today is Iraq. Julien Ries of the Université Catholique de Louvain-la-Neuve in Belgium writes: ‘The cross is present in the ancient cultures of Asia, Europe, North Africa, and America [including] in Mesopotamia [where] the cross with four equal arms is the sign for heaven and the god Anu.’ The "Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words" is more specific, saying that the cross "had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name)." So the cross is clearly of pre-Christian origin. Some have suggested that Tammuz, also called Dumuzi, was originally a king and was deified after his death. For example, O. R. Gurney writes in the "Journal of Semitic Studies": "Dumuzi was originally a man, a king of Erech." Could this be a possible reference to Nimrod, of whom the Bible says, "The beginning of his kingdom came to be Babel and Erech"? (Genesis 10:10) At present, there is no way of knowing for sure.

[flowperson]

Once again mee you are positing the contents of the Bible as if this constitutes historical fact.

There have been many books written over the years which accurately describe what understandings the archaeological and paleoanthropological evidence conveys to us today concerning ancient Mesopotamia.

I suggest that you access some of this information and not rely upon your favored cut-and-paste sources to form your opinions.

An excellent place to begin would be any of the several books about ancient Mesopotamia written by Zechariah Sitchin. I believe that his first was The Twelfth Planet. It goes back into the mythological sources which were the foundation for the belief systems of ancient Mesopotamians.

BTW, ancient inhabitants of Malta used the cross symbol in many ways before the Mesopotamians did.

flow....

[greymare]

gosh, flow, do you know EVERYTHING? I am constantly amazed at the wealth of your knowledge.awesome. When Brady has assignments this year, we arent going to google, we are going to ask flow.

[flowperson]

Hi Grey...Nope, I sure don't know everything, but when it comes to science and religion I know enough to get hacked off when somebody begins to spread around mis or dis information. That's a real big reason that the world is so screwed up.

If you asked me about how a jet engine is engineered or how to train a good bird dog I would just be another Elmer Fudd shootin' a blunderbuss at "wascawy wabbits". When someone knows a little about a lot of things it's my opinion that they should serve as a resource for others to understand what the knower knows. I see it all as a public service.

And I know by experience when it is that I'm talking with a nice lady. What's Brady studying ? I still think Google would be a better bet for him, more choice regarding what to believe. Besides, information obtained from old farts is sometimes out of date. Still interested in that bartending job at the Corral ? I'll bet you'd get great tips.

Cheers !....flow....

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by mee

The view generally accepted by scholars is expressed by P. J. Wiseman as follows: "All the real evidence we have, that of Genesis, archaeology, and the traditions of men, points to the Mesopotamian plain as the oldest home of man. Far Eastern civilization, whether Chinese or Indian, cannot compete with this land in the antiquity of its peoples, for it can easily sustain its claim to be the cradle of civilization."—New Discoveries in Babylonia About Genesis, 1949, p. 28.

1949 eh? You need to catch up. Middle eastern archaeologists abandoned bibliocentrism more than three decades ago. The view generally accepted by scholars today is that the Bible presents foundational mythology which has almost no relationship to historical fact.

Chris

[greymare]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Hi Grey...Nope, I sure don't know everything, but when it comes to science and religion I know enough to get hacked off when somebody begins to spread around mis or dis information. That's a real big reason that the world is so screwed up.

If you asked me about how a jet engine is engineered or how to train a good bird dog I would just be another Elmer Fudd shootin' a blunderbuss at "wascawy wabbits". When someone knows a little about a lot of things it's my opinion that they should serve as a resource for others to understand what the knower knows. I see it all as a public service.

And I know by experience when it is that I'm talking with a nice lady. What's Brady studying ? I still think Google would be a better bet for him, more choice regarding what to believe. Besides, information obtained from old farts is sometimes out of date. Still interested in that bartending job at the Corral ? I'll bet you'd get great tips.

Cheers !....flow....

oh flow, dont under estimate your self.I love watching you point out the facts . Brady is only grade 6, so god knows what assignments Ill be doing this year.lol. Last year, tyson completed grade 12 and I can honestly say, I didnt do to bad at some of his assignments. Imight have even passed had I completed my senior year. lol. And yes, ill be the barkeep.. but you know Ill drink all the profits.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Check out the Wiki entry on Zechariah Sitchin. He's a sort of postmodern Castenada.

Chris