Meaning of trinity - Page 4

InLove · 06-28-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neemai

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Could anyone help with a Christian understanding of this quotation? I'm interested because in Vaishnavism the exact same teaching is given, but I am not sure if the understanding would be the same?

Hi Neemai. The quote above is from the New Testament (The Gospel of John, verses 1 and 2). Here, the writer of John mirrors some of the first verses found in the book of the Old Testament, Genesis. Maybe if we link the first two verses with some subsequent verses in John's Gospel, it would shed some light (pardon unexpected pun.

):

From John 1:1-5, (KJV):

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

And later in verses 9-14:

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Does this help?

InPeace,
InLove

InLove · 06-28-2007, 07:34 PM

Neemai, I forgot to comment on the rest of your question!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neemai

For example, what is the Word that was God?
Is there a Word that is God?

I see the Word of God as the Christ, who was manifest in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. There are other Christians who might explain things differently or add some more to my explanation. I am no scholar, nor am I necessarily always in line with mainstream views of Christianity. I don't know how to talk about how this might relate to Vaishnavism, especially here in the Christian garden. Maybe some others will be along soon to help explain. I think some might possibly discuss the term "Elohim" or some other Words. But I am not too good at that.

InPeace,
InLove

JosephM · 06-28-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neemai

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Could anyone help with a Christian understanding of this quotation? I'm interested because in Vaishnavism the exact same teaching is given, but I am not sure if the understanding would be the same?

For example, what is the Word that was God?
Is there a Word that is God?

Best Wishes,

... Neemai

Greetings Neemai,

There are many Christian perspectives and not just one. To me, The Word (Logos) is something said or by implication 'a thought'. In that we identify a thought or something said with the thinker or source then that Word could be referenced as it 'was God' and came forth from the same. In my view, God is not a Word but rather the Word is the manifestation of what 'was' God.

The answer to your second question in my view is No unless you want to attribute all words to God as God being All that Is or All in All.

Love and Peace,
JM

LeoSalinas22 · 06-28-2007, 07:57 PM

hello joseph,

Quote:

There are many Christian perspectives and not just one. To me, The Word (Logos) is something said or by implication 'a thought'. In that we identify a thought or something said with the thinker or source then that Word could be referenced as it 'was God' and came forth from the same. In my view, God is not a Word but rather the Word is the manifestation of what 'was' God.

i agree with what you say that the Word and God are different. they are One just like Christ says of His Father about Him and God being one. in a sense He is God but in another He isn't. am i making sense?

JosephM · 06-28-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

hello joseph,

i agree with what you say that the Word and God are different. they are One just like Christ says of His Father about Him and God being one. in a sense He is God but in another He isn't. am i making sense?

To me... Yes very much

Love and Peace,
JM

Faithfulservant · 06-28-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

i don't understand this. i myself am having trouble recognizing that Christ is God. i mean aren't there more scriptures about Christ praying or talking to God or vice versa? from what i have read in the bible, Christ is mainly an example, a light for man to follow. i just don't see Christ as God. Christ was a man just like the rest of us. He was tempted like us but there was no sin in Him.

Jesus was fully man and fully God. He was a man in a lesser form than God so while on earth he submitted to God the Father but he said that he shared the glory with the father and he the father and the spirit agreed as one. Jesus also told Satan at that temptation that thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Jesus received worship and praise while on this earth and we all know that thats a huge no no if He wasnt God. I have difficulty understanding how one that is born again cannot see that Jesus is God in the flesh just from reading the OT and the NT.. but Im sure He will reveal Himself to you.

JosephM · 06-28-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Jesus was fully man and fully God. He was a man in a lesser form than God so while on earth he submitted to God the Father but he said that he shared the glory with the father and he the father and the spirit agreed as one. Jesus also told Satan at that temptation that thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Jesus received worship and praise while on this earth and we all know that thats a huge no no if He wasnt God. I have difficulty understanding how one that is born again cannot see that Jesus is God in the flesh just from reading the OT and the NT.. but Im sure He will reveal Himself to you.

When Jesus said Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God, He was not speaking of himself. He was responding to the request for him Jesus to prove something that would be considered unecessarily tempting his Father.

Also Jesus did not always receive worship and praise... When he was called good he said why call him good , there is none good but the Father. When you do the works of the Father, many will praise and worship the man, but God does the work. I have no difficulty seeing where Leo is coming from after reading the OT and NT. Perhaps in the future, God will be revealed differently to you. But then again that is just my view as yours is yours.

Love and Peace,
JM

BlaznFattyz · 06-28-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus is not God , but we have to take in knowledge about the true God AND jesus christ ....the bible does not teach the trinity

that is your opinion and the opposite of what Christianity believes and teaches, and what the bible expresses in many ways who God is and the divinity of Jesus Christ.

InLove · 06-28-2007, 11:53 PM

This post is regarding Jesus's words in Matthew 4. In both the King James and the NIV, the word "Lord" is written just as I have it here. From what I understand, it is written that way rather than all in caps for a reason. I'm thinking that this might clear up some confusion regarding what Jesus meant when He spoke to Satan. On the other hand, it might only create more. But like I told Neemai earlier, I am no expert in this area. Perhaps someone would like to offer some insight?

I also find it interesting that in verse 4, the word "Man" is capitalized.

InPeace,
InLove

LeoSalinas22 · 06-29-2007, 12:02 AM

ok, i have a question. was Moses divine because God thru Moses parted the sea? was Elijah divine because God thru Elijah caused fire to rain from heaven or God thru Elijah raised the dead? was Samson divine because God granted him super strength? there were a number of men that performed miracles in Gods name but were they divine? from my point of view, no. the only difference with Christ is that He submitted to God's will utterly and without question. He never sinned, either. He is the Perfect Man. He is the only begotten Son. only begotten meaning "unique". He is different from us all, that is a fact. but to me it doesn't make Him God. He is One with God and at His right Hand. but not God. i though confess that He is my Lord and King when His Kingdom reigns on earth, but i can't shake this feeling that He isn't God. i give all glory and honor to our Father in heaven. this is just my point of view. everyone of course may not agree, but that is natural and necessary. thanks and God bless...

Faithfulservant · 06-29-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

When Jesus said Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God, He was not speaking of himself. He was responding to the request for him Jesus to prove something that would be considered unecessarily tempting his Father.

Also Jesus did not always receive worship and praise... When he was called good he said why call him good , there is none good but the Father. When you do the works of the Father, many will praise and worship the man, but God does the work. I have no difficulty seeing where Leo is coming from after reading the OT and NT. Perhaps in the future, God will be revealed differently to you. But then again that is just my view as yours is yours.

Love and Peace,
JM

You are wrong...

The wise men worshipped Him as a babe in the manger... Heck save me the cut and pasting and key in worshiped under any bible software and read for yourself.. He was worshiped by many people and didnt denounce it.

When Jesus said thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.. He was speaking of Himself who was at the very moment being tempted. Duh.

JosephM · 06-29-2007, 12:10 AM

Can Satan tempt God? Can he that is created tempt He that has created him? I think not. God cannot be tempted. Satan came to tempt Jesus in Mathew 4, not God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz to Mee

that is your opinion and the opposite of what Christianity believes and teaches, and what the bible expresses in many ways who God is and the divinity of Jesus Christ.

BF,

Mee speaks as a Christian for himself as I do for myself but Do you speak for Christianity or as a Christian for yourself?

Love and Peace,
JM

InLove · 06-29-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo

ok, i have a question. was Moses divine because God thru Moses parted the sea? was Elijah divine because God thru Elijah caused fire to rain from heaven or God thru Elijah raised the dead? was Samson divine because God granted him super strength? there were a number of men that performed miracles in Gods name but were they divine? from my point of view, no. the only difference with Christ is that He submitted to God's will utterly and without question. He never sinned, either. He is the Perfect Man. He is the only begotten Son. only begotten meaning "unique". He is different from us all, that is a fact. but to me it doesn't make Him God. He is One with God and at His right Hand. but not God. i though confess that He is my Lord and King when His Kingdom reigns on earth, but i can't shake this feeling that He isn't God. i give all glory and honor to our Father in heaven. this is just my point of view. everyone of course may not agree, but that is natural and necessary. thanks and God bless...

Hi Leo

What are your thoughts about the word "begotten"?

Edited to add: Oops! My mistake--you already mentioned that. But the archaic meaning is different.

Edited again, lol

. I have to log out because I have company coming and I have some things that I need to do before they arrive. Just wanted you to know why I have to drop out of the discussion for a while.

InPeace,
InLove

pattimax · 06-29-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM

BF,

Mee speaks as a Christian for himself as I do for myself but Do you speak for Christianity or as a Christian for yourself?

Love and Peace,
JM

Mee speaks through the Watchtower, you speak through your own perspective, and BF is not alone by speaking through the bible.

Gracefully,
Karen

Faithfulservant · 06-29-2007, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

ok, i have a question. was Moses divine because God thru Moses parted the sea? was Elijah divine because God thru Elijah caused fire to rain from heaven or God thru Elijah raised the dead? was Samson divine because God granted him super strength? there were a number of men that performed miracles in Gods name but were they divine? from my point of view, no. the only difference with Christ is that He submitted to God's will utterly and without question. He never sinned, either. He is the Perfect Man. He is the only begotten Son. only begotten meaning "unique". He is different from us all, that is a fact. but to me it doesn't make Him God. He is One with God and at His right Hand. but not God. i though confess that He is my Lord and King when His Kingdom reigns on earth, but i can't shake this feeling that He isn't God. i give all glory and honor to our Father in heaven. this is just my point of view. everyone of course may not agree, but that is natural and necessary. thanks and God bless...

I thought you were a biblical Christian. My mistake.