Matthew 26: 28

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

Actually, I was watching a movie about the people of Cave, when your immportant question:" who is doing the programming? who programmed me? whao programmed you?" invaded my brain....the people of Cave flee from the oppresion of the Roman emperor who used to worship idols.

Hello Sister DB,
Yes Christianity had to begin as an underground movement- literally, in the Catacombs.

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

..the people in the Cave were praying to the only God with words full of monotheism. the words really touched my heart. In essence, we all worship the only and the one God.And I wondred from where does the idea of Trinity come from?

Monotheism was strong in Egypt too- with Akhenaton. Unfortunately, after his death they tried to remove all traces of him.

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

History says that the Emperor Costantine is the one behind the idea of trinity. and who is Costantine to interfere in the teachings of God?t is well-known that the relatioship between the members of the Holy Trinity did not take its last form only in Costantine assembly in 235 A.C (2 hundred and half after Jesus)..

I don't really think that Christians spend a lot of time thinking about the Trinity. I mean it's getting right up there with God the Ineffable.

Do you know the story about Jacob's ladder? Well we can ascend that by learning about the various hierarchical beings above Man.
Thomas has some materials on his webpage, but here's another:
Divine Hierarchy



At his beheading on Montmarte, his blood was collected on a cloth called the Oriflamme, which lated became the gold flame on the French flag. St. Joan of Arc carried the cloth into battle and there is a window in the cathedral showing St. Denys giving the Oriflamme to a Knight Templar.


St.Denys is Dionysius the Areopagite. (From where we get 'Sidney'!)

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

Is this a progammation or not? It is a sample programmation that our Maker wont judge us about it because it becomes a culture and people take it for granted as a Holy truth, while it is not.

Yes how can we be truly sure we are thinking for ourselves and not led by others, or have little demons whispering in our ears?

For some years now in the West, there are many who want some sort of direct revelation rather than have someone tell them what's what.

In the sixties many took the false path of LSD. To begin with it was used in scientific experiments. There was one famous nutritionist who took it and declared it was a way of understanding God. Many young people finally got into it, but ultimately it was disappointing. Some tried to regain the experiences they had by turning to the ancient Indian yogic practices:
Ram Dass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So folk want direct experience of the spirit- like the yogic mediations etc.

In the Muslim tradition you have the path of the Sufi.
I have had a little Sufi experience myself!

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

[dailogue is the best]

salam BM,
How are you, brother? I wish you are fine.
Me, too, Ihave had a Sufi experience. I really love that world of spirituality,good morals, and connection with God. It s a wonderful world, isnt it? which books have you read about Sufism?

you gave example about monetheism in Egypt, and you remind me of Maurice Baucaille and the story of his conversion to Islam. Do you know anything about it? I will let you search for it. if you won't manage in finding it, i ll tell you about it. The story has a relation with the issue of whether the Quran is a copy of the previous Holy Scriptures or not.

God bless,
sis, DB

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Monotheism was strong in Egypt too- with Akhenaton. Unfortunately, after his death they tried to remove all traces of him.

That's because he was a prick. The best insult/attack in ancient Egypt is to erase all history and knowledge of someone... And he got what he had coming....... It put's their state of spirituality into destruction... Game over.

[Bruce Michael]

Shalom Salaam Sr. DB,

>>How are you, brother? I wish you are fine.

I'm O.K., and I trust you are well.

>>Me, too, Ihave had a Sufi experience. I really love that world of spirituality,good morals, and connection with God. It s a wonderful world, >>>isnt it? which books have you read about Sufism?

I went to a Sufi retreat house in the U.K. once. I don't remember what order it was. My bedroom was a converted stable.

In the mornings we would do a Zikr- sitting on the floor and swaying together as we chanted "Al ilahah Ilhal ah"- at least that is how I remember it. After that we would have breakfast and then a long study and discussion. I think we may have studied Ibn Arabi. Anyway, I asked lots of questions, and always at the end of it we decided that the message was "God is Love". And that in fact is the Sufi message.

"The heart is the window to the Sovereign of the worlds. Between Allah and all things is a veil, but between Allah and the heart of Man there is none. The heart is like the Ka'bah. The person who would visit the Ka'bah, who would go there on foot and by the heart, should walk in prostration. It is for this reason that lovers prostrate themselves, faces to the ground. Those who visit the Ka'bah need a guide. The Qur'an is their travelling companion. But the travelling companion of those who journey there by means of the heart is none but Allah.
What is called love is but Allah's divine kindling and the fireplace of that
kindling is the heart of those who have arrived."
(Maqalat-i Haci Bektas Veli)

>>>, and you remind me of Maurice Baucaille and the story of his >>>conversion to Islam. Do you know anything about it?

I couldn't find anything specifically on it. I did find a discussion of the points on wikipedia:
The relation between Islam and science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have had other Sufi experiences and read books- but I will relate those to you another time.
Oh, and do tell us about your experiences!
Warm Regards,
Br.Bruce

[dailogue is the best]

shaloom brother BM,

Wow! I really like your sufi experience. You successfully managed in summarizing it in one sentence" God is love"...For me Iv read alot about Sufi. Sufi is divided into two types:Philosophical sufism (that of Ibn Arabi, Al7alajj, Aljonaid and others), and Sunni sufism (that of Alghazali, Sohrawardi, Rabiaa Adawiya...and others.)

My personal experience with Sufism is personal. I keep saying the Zikre like "La ilaha illa Allah" "Allaho akbar" "sobhana Allah"......any sentences which mention the name of Allah...the essence of Sufism is to live with Allah in all our actions...there is no interference of soul's whims and desires that constitute a veil towards getting closer to Allah...I extremely like your quotation...So, I keep mentioning Allah when doing housework, when I am in the bus, when I am at work, when I am walking, when I am talking with people as Rabiaa Adawiya(Sufi woman) said: "( this is my translation.Sorry if not clear) I make you (Allah) my talker in my heart, and I let my body to those who want to talk with me" (I m sure it isnt clear, is it?

I wont hide on you that sometimes I feel the oneness with God. I keep praying devoutly to the degree I say: " O! who is me" (hope meaning is clear)

Sufism lifts us up higher and higher to Allah, and let us feel the beauty, clarity, tolerance, peace and calmness with one's soul and with others.

Concerning the story of Maurice Baucaille, I hope Ill translate it clearly. the story is in Arabic in the following site:

مقالات عن الإسلام والمسلمين, والتعريف بالله والرسول محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم , والقرآن , والحديث , والمرأة, والفقه والفتوى

I will try to summarize it:He is a well known seorgeon. he is French.France is famous of its interest of archeolgy and heritage..When Mitran became a president in 1981, he asked E gypt's president to lend them Pharoah's Mummy for some time to do some researches and experiences on it.

they transmitted the Mummy to France with big reception from the part of the French president. the other reseachers were concerned about the mummifiering the mummy.Maurice was mainly concerned about how the Mummy died.the remaining of salt in Pharoah's mummy revealed that pharoah died drowning, and that his corp had been got out from the sea, and then they mummifired it.
But, there was something that puzzled Maurice, and made him thinking: why this mummy alone was better saved and well remained than others mummies.

some people asked him not to be so astonished because Muslims talk about this mummy and its safety in the Quran. Maurice became more puzzled:" this cant occure because the mummy was discovered in 1898... that is to say 2 hundreds before, while the Quran had existed since one thousand and four hundreds years. Maurice kept wondering: how this can be logic.the Muslims had known about mummies only decades of years ago.

Maurice stayed,one night,looking at the mummy, wondering from where the Muslims know about the mummy. He looked in the Holy Bible, and he found out the the Bible talked about the drowning of Pharoeh during his chasing of Moses(pbuh), but it didnt mention anything about the destiny of pharoah's corp...he kept wondering: can their Muhammed know about pharoah corp before one thousand year, while I ve just learnt about it"

Maurice, in his astonishment, asked them to give him the Torah. he found the following:"...then water cover all pharoah army..and no one is left(sorry for translation)"

France returned the mummy to Egypt, but Maurice stayed in his puzzled thinking...he went to a conference in Saudi Arabia...he talked to them about what he discoverd concerning the mummy, a Muslim scientist opened the Holy Quran and read:" This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a Sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs"(10:92)

Then he converted to Islam, and went to France, and spent ten years in writing a book entitled:" The Quran, The Torah, The Bible and Science...the study of the Holy Books in the light of new findings" .The book achieved a great success.

this is simply the story of Maurice Baucaille conversion...I hope I have succeeded in the translation.....So, brother, from where does this Quranic verse come from? from the Bible or the Torah? What do you think?


with my great respect,brother
sis, DB