Matthew 11:18-19

didymus · 03-10-2005, 10:19 PM

"For John came neither eating nor drinking and they say, 'he has a demon'. "The son of man came eating and drinking and they say, 'here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'" But wisdom is proved by her actions."

Now this is an interesting statement made by Jesus. I don't claim to know the meaning but it does seem self explanatory.

I want to comment on Jesus' use of she and wisdom together. he does this in other passages also.

In hebrew the word for wisdom was hokhmah and in greek sophia.

Proverbs 3:19 By wisdom the Lord laid the foundation of the earth, by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.

Sophia represents a divine spirit that pervades all being. The feminine knowledge of God.

Bandit · 03-11-2005, 02:21 AM

didymus, do you want me to talk to you about this or do you want to wait for someone else this time?

didymus · 03-11-2005, 05:13 PM

Fell free to jump in. I'm trying to stay off christian board as not to be accused of causing controversy. As you see noone responds on these other boards.

Bandit · 03-11-2005, 07:02 PM

ok. i know where you want to go with this. so i think it will just be easier if i kind of nod my head and sort of agree with whatever it is you say.the word Jesus used there is not refering to the mythical goddess Sophia.

Quote:

let patience have her perfect work

Titanic was also called a SHE.

now we have the goddess of wisdom and the goddess of patience and the goddess of ships and boats.

didymus · 03-11-2005, 08:27 PM

you're right he isn't referring to sophia. he was referring to hokhmah or chokmah which is hebrew . sophia is the greek translation. I don't believe that Jesus spoke any greek.

Basstian · 03-12-2005, 02:28 AM

Solomon refered to wisdom as a female something it was understood we as men should desire should love and should even lust after WISDOM not a female God.

Solomon also refered to foolishness and wickedness in a female form because the desire of it can be as attractive as a harlot.NOT A FEMALE DEVIL

Now if I start preaching the Devil is a woman I am going to start a sex war for sure.

I havent said that so please dont put words in my mouth.
Humm I wonder if that is what Jesus would have said.

wil · 03-12-2007, 04:11 PM

"Chokmah - Divine Reality/revelation/Yesh me-ayin - being from nothingness (Power of Wisdom) from wiki

Thomas · 03-12-2007, 04:36 PM

I think you're all right ... and Bandit's righter ...

It's to do with the figurative use of language ... if I had time to learn Hebrew I would, because being a shade Irish, we really delight in wordplay, and the Hebrew language, as I have been led to understand, delights in it also.

But you wouldn't want a Hebraic instruction manual for a technical piece of kit, you'd want a Greek to write that ...

Thomas

Dor · 03-12-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

now we have the goddess of wisdom and the goddess of patience and the goddess of ships and boats.

I agree with Bandit here and happen to miss him quite a bit.

wil · 03-12-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dor

I agree with Bandit here and happen to miss him quite a bit.

Bandit's contemplations and discussions were intriguing, interesting and thought provoking, he is missed by many, however he tired of dealing with those who refused to look beyond, behind and underneath scripture...he came back for a bit to see if the temperature of the water changed...if he came back now...he'd be off again quickly...

Dor · 03-12-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil

Bandit's contemplations and discussions were intriguing, interesting and thought provoking, he is missed by many, however he tired of dealing with those who refused to look beyond, behind and underneath scripture...he came back for a bit to see if the temperature of the water changed...if he came back now...he'd be off again quickly...

Are we talking about the same Bandit.....you might want to look back at some of his post when Sacredstar was still with us.

Faithfulservant · 03-13-2007, 12:24 AM

Wil you dont know bandit.. give it up.

Quahom1 · 03-14-2007, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Wil you dont know bandit.. give it up.

...but I do...

Faithfulservant · 03-14-2007, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quahom1

...but I do...

Im not saying a word

Quahom1 · 03-14-2007, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

Im not saying a word

Neither have I.

03-10-2005, 10:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
didymus Executive Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 506	Matthew 11:18-19 "For John came neither eating nor drinking and they say, 'he has a demon'. "The son of man came eating and drinking and they say, 'here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'" But wisdom is proved by her actions." Now this is an interesting statement made by Jesus. I don't claim to know the meaning but it does seem self explanatory. I want to comment on Jesus' use of she and wisdom together. he does this in other passages also. In hebrew the word for wisdom was hokhmah and in greek sophia. Proverbs 3:19 By wisdom the Lord laid the foundation of the earth, by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew. Sophia represents a divine spirit that pervades all being. The feminine knowledge of God.

03-11-2005, 02:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bandit Executive Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,616	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 didymus, do you want me to talk to you about this or do you want to wait for someone else this time?

03-11-2005, 05:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
didymus Executive Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 506	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 Fell free to jump in. I'm trying to stay off christian board as not to be accused of causing controversy. As you see noone responds on these other boards.

03-11-2005, 08:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
didymus Executive Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 506	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 you're right he isn't referring to sophia. he was referring to hokhmah or chokmah which is hebrew . sophia is the greek translation. I don't believe that Jesus spoke any greek.

03-12-2005, 02:28 AM	#6 (permalink)
Basstian In Search Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bible Belt USA Posts: 310	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 Solomon refered to wisdom as a female something it was understood we as men should desire should love and should even lust after WISDOM not a female God. Solomon also refered to foolishness and wickedness in a female form because the desire of it can be as attractive as a harlot.NOT A FEMALE DEVIL Now if I start preaching the Devil is a woman I am going to start a sex war for sure. I havent said that so please dont put words in my mouth. Humm I wonder if that is what Jesus would have said.

03-12-2007, 04:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
wil UNeyeR1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,466	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 "Chokmah - Divine Reality/revelation/Yesh me-ayin - being from nothingness (Power of Wisdom) from wiki

03-12-2007, 04:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
Thomas Will you also go away? Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,093	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 I think you're all right ... and Bandit's righter ... It's to do with the figurative use of language ... if I had time to learn Hebrew I would, because being a shade Irish, we really delight in wordplay, and the Hebrew language, as I have been led to understand, delights in it also. But you wouldn't want a Hebraic instruction manual for a technical piece of kit, you'd want a Greek to write that ... Thomas

03-13-2007, 12:24 AM	#12 (permalink)
Faithfulservant Executive Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 2,082	Re: Matthew 11:18-19 Wil you dont know bandit.. give it up.

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