Masturbation and God

[cavalier]

Let's stop beating around the bush.

Masturbation, in itself, isn't a bad thing. It depends on the context

[17th Angel]

You're not a fool if you admit to masturbation... I do it! Oh my!! I am "so" embarassed how foolish of me.... heh please... Pretty sure everyone here in this thread does it too.. Although! I would put all my assests and my estate on the line in a bet that even if you all don't you ALL have.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by dauer

This is from the chapter on Shabbat, the Sabbath, under a section that deals with the mitzvah (usually commandment) to make love with one's spouse on Shabbat in a way that came to be understood as deeply spiritual and meaningful and symbolic.
Dauer

My wife will be very happy to hear this. I know what I'll be doing on Sabbath afternoons!

[wil]

I remember years ago a friend was going to a church, quite fundamental, very well known denomination, I'll leave out the who...he comes back telling me that the preacher made biblical references which asserted 'better to put your seed in the belly of a prostitute than to spill it on the ground' I'll never forget those words....I think neither did he.

Did I say I was living in Nevada at the time?

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by wil

I remember years ago a friend was going to a church, quite fundamental, very well known denomination, I'll leave out the who...he comes back telling me that the preacher made biblical references which asserted 'better to put your seed in the belly of a prostitute than to spill it on the ground' I'll never forget those words....I think neither did he.

Did I say I was living in Nevada at the time?

That is a preacher who is basically saying it's ok to buy a prostitute? lol... Madness.

[Francis king]

lol, how did I miss the lil post? the holy seed of yah... isnt the letter Yod supposedly like erm, that "seed"..? I heard that if Jews lost some of their seed at night than this was because a demoness called a succubus took his seed and used it for herself to create more lil succubii... and that when it happenned to girls they were getting visited by the male equivalent, and this story was told to jewish kids so that they'd be too scared to even dream about masturbation... although of course, I might be wrong...

[dauer]

Francis,

snt the letter Yod supposedly like erm, that "seed"..?

Metaphorically, in some situations, according to some people.

I heard that if Jews lost some of their seed at night than this was because a demoness called a succubus took his seed and used it for herself to create more lil succubii...

I believing you're thinking of lilith, who's a little different. But she's primarily a character of folklore.

Lilith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Francis king]

thats for the clarification, dauer... and love ur beard, btw

[17th Angel]

And its.... It's a bad thing? That Lilth vists you?

heh, and yeah the succubus ain't a jewish thing as far as I know... Those are demons that can look like nice looking cheeky ladies... oooh la la... and basically tempt and tempt you and then drain your soul!!!!!

[dauer]

thats for the clarification, dauer... and love ur beard, btw

Glad I could help, and thanks. That picture's actually over a year old. Now I can grow a moustache.

[Francis king]

Remember though, it's not a sin to trim. Too much fur and you might end up looking Amish.

[dauer]

Francis,

No, but it is a pain having to shave every day. lol. Plus beards are cool. I actually got asked if I was originally Amish or syncretically influenced somehow (or to some other religion) when I went without the moustache. That picture was taken at a Jewish retreat center I spent not this past summer but the summer before living and working at, and there was this guy who used to be a mennonite who became a Jew, who as a friend of one of the people there for the summer spent some time there. So it did come up. But with the moustache there doesn't seem to be any confusion.

Dauer

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I must say that I was shocked about the comment.

But letting God in on something like that has got to be out of this world. Love of oneself, sharing that private moment with God - whoa! That's heavy. No shame when you do it that way. After something like that, there are truly no secrets between you and God.

I see. So masturbation isn't wrong if you declare to God that you just can't help yourself?

Originally Posted by dauer

that's the way it hit me. At first I was saying to myself, "No, that not what you're supposed to say." But it made me stop and think. And I thought about how something becomes a profane act when we leave God out of it. But if God's there it's sacred. It's an intimate moment with the Divine. I think it would also make it near impossible for someone to indulge in pornography. Pornography is exploitive. If a person lets God in, how can they at the same time encourage an industry that defiles many of those in the image of God?

Ah, so I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for God. Interesting.

lol. That sounds funny. Every time you feel the urge, all you have to do is consecrate the act and pray, "God this is for you. Happy birthday."

Your body is a temple and everything you do in that temple is a ritual that is holy. A holy act consecrated by God.

Originally Posted by Prober

My wife will be very happy to hear this. I know what I'll be doing on Sabbath afternoons!

I had a bit of a laugh reading some of the posts on this forum. I had a bit of a laugh too when I saw the title and came in for a peek. Nice to know you all have a sense of humour.

Thanks for your courage in bringing up the topic, Dauer. Most of us men would be a bit too embarrassed and shy to talk about it. A lot of us are shy on really personal issues like masturbation.

So what do the ladies think? Yuk?

[dauer]

lol. That sounds funny. Every time you feel the urge, all you have to do is consecrate the act and pray, "God this is for you. Happy birthday."

Not exactly. It's not about declaring that you can't help yourself. It's about recognizing that it's a healthy thing and teaching our children that, as opposed to teaching them guilt. If we get them to recognize that God is in, that helps.

Much as with the traditional Jewish view of sex, there's also a time for everything, so the idea would be to delegate Shabbos as the day on which it happens. In this way masturbation and thus sexual expression via relationship gets connected with the Sacred in the mind, and it also teaches self control and discipline. Then, as a person grows older, it becomes harder to violate that sense that sex is something that should be special, and not just a cheap thrill. The individual, imo, would want to continue to have sexual experiences that are positive and healthy, and would want to avoid ones that would get away from the ideas learned when younger.

Your body is a temple and everything you do in that temple is a ritual that is holy. A holy act consecrated by God.

I don't really buy that. What about things like murder? Anyway, I don't think what's important is whether or not the act is okay or not. Whether or not someone makes their masturbatory experiences something holy, I still don't think there's anything wrong with them. But there is a psychological impact of the rituals that we create and practice in our lives. And that psychological impact is what I see playing out later in life for a child whose parents teach them this view of what really is a very common human act.

Dauer

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by dauer

Not exactly. It's not about declaring that you can't help yourself. It's about recognizing that it's a healthy thing and teaching our children that, as opposed to teaching them guilt. If we get them to recognize that God is in, that helps.

Much as with the traditional Jewish view of sex, there's also a time for everything, so the idea would be to delegate Shabbos as the day on which it happens. In this way masturbation and thus sexual expression via relationship gets connected with the Sacred in the mind, and it also teaches self control and discipline.

I don't really buy that. What about things like murder? Anyway, I don't think what's important is whether or not the act is okay or not. Whether or not someone makes their masturbatory experiences something holy, I still don't think there's anything wrong with them.

I think I might know what you're getting at -- that it's not whether it's right or wrong, but that we include God in what we're going through.

So masturbation could well be deemed "wrong" or "unhealthy," but the fact that we share it with God and include it in our relationship with Him, is what makes it "sacred" (ie. due to it being personal). So us sharing personal issues with God makes the act sacred, even though from the legalistic point of view, masturbation is "wrong" or in a sense, "unhealthy." But because we share it with God, the long-term consequences of "bad habits" like masturbation can be resolved because we allow God to take us through a process of personal healing and reformation?

Does that, sort of . . . fit in . . . with what you were thinking? Just trying to figure out how masturbation can be considered "not unfavourable" to God.