Mara & Buddha

[Bruce Michael]

Peace Friends,
There is a problem with organized religion. The Group Spirit behind each one of them battles it out with what it perceives as competition, and this leads to bigotry in the members. I often drive past Hindu and Buddhist temples on the way to church. I've thought it would be interesting for a christian church to use some of that kind of architecture. I especially like the yellow and red bright flags in front of the Buddhist temple- very festive. Maybe a simple thing like this will bring people together. Perhaps an ablution block too, like the Muslims have.

Human beings do not reincarnate as animals. However, the Eightfold Path is for all men. There is also the connection of the Nirmanakaya of Buddha with the Christian story. You could consider the story of Siddharta, living his sheltered existence till he turned twenty-nine, a picture of the Bodhisattva living the pure spirit life and then descending into the realm of physical manifestation. He goes off and then encounters the Tempter, the demon Mara.

A lot of folk have forgotten how the word "mara" has entered our language. This is the obsolete, 'Mare', now found in the compound 'night-mare'.

"Mare, n. [AS. mara incubus; akin to OHG. & Icel. mara; cf. Pol. mora, Bohem. mra.] (Med.) Sighing, suffocative panting, intercepted utterance, with a sense of pressure across the chest, occurring during sleep; the incubus. I will ride thee o' nights like the mare. Shak."

Mara is Lucifer; and I know one one person who had the above experience- like someone kneeling on her chest. She was a theosophist, and there was little those folk could do for her unfortunately.

"The 'mare' derives from Old English mara, or a spectra which, it was said, perched itself on the breast of a sleeper and deprived him of motion and speech. One form in which the name of Mara, a demon, survives. The other is 'mare's nest'."

The "mare's nest" tells us of Mara's cave of treasures which turns out to be a delusion/illusion. -Br.Bruce

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

There is a problem with organized religion. The Group Spirit behind each one of them battles it out with what it perceives as competition, and this leads to bigotry in the members.

I know what you mean. We all do it, sometimes on this forum!

Human beings do not reincarnate as animals.

bigotnoun[C] DISAPPROVING
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong
Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press

You could consider the story of Siddharta, living his sheltered existence till he turned twenty-nine, a picture of the Bodhisattva living the pure spirit life and then descending into the realm of physical manifestation

My understanding is that his sheltered existence was the polar opposite of “the pure spirit life” and the Bodhisattva ideal of living a life to save all sentient beings. At his father’s say so, his sheltered existence was one of pure hedonism, exactly in order that his mind would not turn to spiritual matters. Finally, at 29 he left his "palatial" family home, to begin his spiritual quest.

Just my bigoted two pence worth!

s.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I know what you mean. We all do it, sometimes on this forum!



bigotnoun[C] DISAPPROVING
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong
Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press





My understanding is that his sheltered existence was the polar opposite of “the pure spirit life” and the Bodhisattva ideal of living a life to save all sentient beings. At his father’s say so, his sheltered existence was one of pure hedonism, exactly in order that his mind would not turn to spiritual matters. Finally, at 29 he left his "palatial" family home, to begin his spiritual quest.

Just my bigoted two pence worth!

s.

Dear Snoopy,

Have you ever heard of a gentleman by the name of Elwood P. Dowd?

Greetings,
Br.Bruce

[Snoopy]

No, care to enlighten?

s.

[Tariki]

"It makes no difference what you grasp," said the Buddha, "when someone grasps, Mara stands beside him."

..............says tariki quite self-righteously......


Excerpt from "Living with the Devil" by Stephen Batchelor....

Buddha calls Mara the Antaka. While anta means "end", "limit", "boundary," or "horizon," the Pali suffix -ka implies "one who makes" or "imposes" such things. Mara is that which limits us, confines us within boundaries, fixes our horizons, and brings everything to an end............We inherit or adopt opinions about ourselves and the world that we cling to and refuse to relinquish. So certain are we of being "right" that our convictions feel embedded in our flesh. Yet, to be ensnared by them locks us into fixed dogmatic positions, which are a form of intellectual and spiritual death.



Yes, and anyway, who is Elwood P Dowd?

[Snoopy]

Hi Tariki

I wondered how long it would be before the siren call of the name Mara drew you here.

s.

[Bruce Michael]

Hello Tariki,

I wonder if there is an understanding in Buddhism that Mara affects the ability to breathe?
I imagine the pronunciation is something like a breathy "Maiiii-ra".

>"It makes no difference what you grasp," said the Buddha, "when >someone grasps, Mara stands beside him."

Do you mean in a selfish way?



>Yes, and anyway, who is Elwood P Dowd?

He is a character in a play/film, called Harvey. He befriends a Pooka (nature being/fairy)- a six foot invisible rabbit.
Some quotes:
"Science has overcome time and space. But Harvey, he’s overcome time and space and all the objections." ..

"I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with."

"Elwood P. Dowd: Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. "


Anyway, Elwood was quite Buddhistic in his attitude. (Though he did spend a lot of time in bars.)

As pleasant as he was, there was a decided lack of egohood there. I wanted to point this out in contrast to the Christian path. (As in sense of self.)

Greetings,
Br.Bruce

[Tariki]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hi Tariki

I wondered how long it would be before the siren call of the name Mara drew you here.

s.

......well.........yes.......seems to me that Mara often has a fine point of view. At least, it seems so to me..........

Bruce Michael

>"It makes no difference what you grasp," said the Buddha, "when >someone grasps, Mara stands beside him."

Do you mean in a selfish way?

I would say it makes no difference.............

To grasp at "self", to identify totally with the self's "views and opinions", building up a persona whose illusory existence will always stand between our phenomenal selves and the truth of what we are..... And from a Christian perspective, to grasp at "God" in the sense of a "salvation by works", however subtle the "works"! - to "grasp" is to believe that we have chosen rather than that we ourselves have been chosen. Meister Eckhart spoke of the "true poverty" as being to "know nothing, to possess nothing, to desire nothing"..........and that nothing that knowledge can grasp or desire can want is God. When knowledge and desire end, there is darkness. And there God shines.

Anyway, Elwood sounds quite a good chap to me.

(As far as "true selves" and contrasts between paths is concerned, as I have said before, perhaps it is in relation to what we understand by a Person that future interfaith dialogue should be concerned.............certainly Christian and Buddhist)

[InLove]

Sounds like the movie with Jimmy Stewart, called "Harvey"?

Interesting discussion. I find much to be of valuable exchange between willing Christians and Buddhists, and it is very helpful in my journey. I haven't figured it all out, and maybe never will, but it is there for me.

InPeace,
InLove

[Tariki]

Originally Posted by InLove

I haven't figured it all out, and maybe never will, but it is there for me.

InPeace,
InLove

InLove,

maybe attempting to "figure it all out" can be our biggest mistake? Once again I resort to the words of Thomas Merton. I am reading again from his letters.................

And the simple fact that by being attentive, by learning to listen, we can find ourself engulfed in such happiness that it cannot be explained; the happiness of being one with everything in that hidden ground of Love for which there can be no explanation.

I can only witness to the fact that, looking back, when the "harvest of happiness" comes, it always seems to come with a deep sense of grace, seems to come in spite of my own "figuring out" and efforts, rather than because of them.

As the "Good Book" says......for the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself
(St Mark 4:28)

[zeras]

Asalaamulikum,
it's been a long time, buthopfully, I'll be online more
well, couple of things I noticed, yes the battle between Mara and Buddha
was a spiritually, Physically, Mentally struggle.
Also, In my language, which is Bengali, the word Mara means
Murder or dead.
while, it many Indian languages, i means dead or death.
I also it seems like a traditional differences.

Mara is considered a demon or a deity of death to Theravada tradition mostly, while Yama is considered a demon and deity of the dead or death as well in mostly Tantrayana also known as Vajrayana in many traditions such as Tibetan Buddhist (all schools of thought) and as well as some Chinese, Nepalese, Mongolian but mostly Japanese Buddhist of Shingon tradition. I know that beings can take in many forms but, I've read somewhere, that Mara and Yama are totally diffrent, which I too agree, they seem very diffrent from each other.


Salaamulikum

[InLove]

Originally Posted by Tariki

I can only witness to the fact that, looking back, when the "harvest of happiness" comes, it always seems to come with a deep sense of grace, seems to come in spite of my own "figuring out" and efforts, rather than because of them.

Yes, and even though I am curious about whatever mysteries may be out there, I generally find that they lead right back here where my heart knows and my being is.

InPeace,
InLove

[Bruce Michael]

Further to what I said about ablutions:
In the third century there are traces of a custom of washing the hands as a preparation for prayer on the part of all Christians; and from the fourth century onwards it appears to have been usual for the ministers at the Communion Service ceremonially to wash their hands before the more solemn part of the service as a symbol of inward purity." Report of the Royal Commission on Ecclesiastical Discipline (Church of England) 1906

Lavabo

A lavabo is a device used to provide water. In ecclesiastical usage it is the basin in which the priest washes his hands after preparing the Altar before saying Mass. The room in which it is kept is the lavatory. The word can also refer to a specific ritual in the Mass.

The name Lavabo ("I shall wash") is derived from the words of the 26th Psalm, which the celebrant is directed in the Missal to recite during the ceremony; "I will wash my hands in innocency, O Lord, and so will I go to Thine altar." As he says this, he ritually rinses his hands in water, usually assisted by an altar server. This part of the mass is referred to as the Lavabo.

"