Luciferianism

[moseslmpg]

Originally Posted by Blackrose

If you take the time to truly look, you will see a common thread of beliefs in either Luciferianism or Satanism. I do not feel the need to justify myself nor my beliefs to one that obviously has not taken the time to TRULY do the research, or else just does not has the mental capacity to comprehend it.

FFF(F)
Blackrose

Ok geez, no need to get hostile. I have done as much research as my access to sources will allow. I was not criticizing so much the -isms, as I was commenting on the -ists...or I didn't mean to sound like I was. The thing is, in some cases Luciferianism and Satanism seem to be labels that people merely attach to themselves to justify their behavious, in others they are actually somewhat concrete belief systems, and to others they are merely the bases for some philosophical viewpoint.

Case in point, Jeremy Christner seems to express a different set of beliefs regarding his form of Luciferianism than most people I have encountered. Unfortunately, his board went down before he could answer my questions regarding his beliefs and ideas.

I guess the question I have is what makes one a Satanist/Luciferian and what makes one not a Satanist/Luciferian.

[Blackrose]

Originally Posted by moseslmpg

Ok geez, no need to get hostile. I have done as much research as my access to sources will allow. I was not criticizing so much the -isms, as I was commenting on the -ists...or I didn't mean to sound like I was. The thing is, in some cases Luciferianism and Satanism seem to be labels that people merely attach to themselves to justify their behavious, in others they are actually somewhat concrete belief systems, and to others they are merely the bases for some philosophical viewpoint.

Case in point, Jeremy Christner seems to express a different set of beliefs regarding his form of Luciferianism than most people I have encountered. Unfortunately, his board went down before he could answer my questions regarding his beliefs and ideas.

I guess the question I have is what makes one a Satanist/Luciferian and what makes one not a Satanist/Luciferian.

Alright, I'll try to explain this a bit. And by the way, sorry it took me so long to get back to you, I've been busy with other things.

I do not think it right for me to trying speaking for the whole of Luciferianism, because as I mentioned toward the beginning of this thread, Luciferianism/ Satanism is very individualistic. Therefore, I will only speak my own views upon the subject.

I normally refer to myself as Luciferian, because of its gnostic impetus, the quest for knowledge, (both spiritual knowledge and Self knowledge). I have, and do at times also refer to myself as a Satanist, Thelemite, Skirhand Witch (Skirhand being a term referring to the Left Hand Path), or Sorcerer.

As I have mentioned before I do not worship any deity. Rather, I seek to align myself with the Adversary, as found in the mythologies of many religions, and the folklore of many cultures. The Adversary wears many deific mask, which I see as archetypes and anthropomorphism forces of nature.

By aligning myself with these archetypes, I seek to become more whole, through gaining more self knowledge and knowledge of the spiritual planes.

And yes, there is still a bit of a dualist nature to my belief system. Lucifer represents the Higher Self, the enlighten Self. While Ahriman represent the Beast, the base animistic nature. I seek to develop both to remain balanced. There are many other deific mask that I use too, but I'm trying to keep this somewhat simple and not write a book.

As far as "good" and "evil", I seek to go beyond the normally accepted ideas of these terms. It is my belief that the only reason to live by a moral code instead of following your own nature is that your nature is "immoral". For those whose nature is more balance there is not as great a need for these codes. I also believe that such codes are counterproductive to the individual. To repress the natural inclinations only serves to create compulsions whereby the natural inclinations come out with more force. On the other hand if one gives vent to his natural inclinations in a positive manner, be it through ritual or some other means, they are healthier and do not have these compulsions. I guess, the one moral code, (if you wish to call it that), which most Satanist/Luciferians live by would be Crowley's, "Do as Thou will shall be the whole of the Law. And also, take responsibility for your actions.

My own views concerning good and evil are that anything , which serves to strengthen is good, anything which serves to weaken is evil.

As a Witch I also seek to be more in tune with the rhythms of Nature, and the other worlds, I venerate those that have gone before and to work with the shades of the dead, elementals, and the like.

These are just a few of my beliefs, call them my religion, my philosophy, or my way of life.

[Agaliarept]

I don't know what has been said but as I am, I take beliefs from many religions and mix them for myself. As a Luciferian follower of sorts, I must say that Lucifer as the light-bearer is not Satan, the adversary. No where in holy scripture does it say the Lucifer becomes Satan. Satan as it stands is a seperate being from Lucifer. It is said that Lucifer conscripted Satan and an ancient earth god, which the name escapes me at the moment, in the battle against the so called "God." Lucifer is infact acting as hundreds of other gods have for 1000s of years. Now also, Jesus Christ claims to be the morning star, but as it stands Lucifer is the morning star. So if that is true then the full manifestation of christ must be Lucifer, which, ineffect would recreate christianity.

Ben.

[Agaliarept]

Originally Posted by SHYSTAR

Hi, everyone;
Q. Does the five pointed star (point downwards) symbolise satan in anyway?

- sorry for any interuption to your discussion , this kinda seemed relevant to the topic - p.s i'm new ( sorry for any boo boo's)

love always

Any way the point faces, its still a protective symbol.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Agaliarept

Any way the point faces, its still a protective symbol.

As long as you don't sit on it.....

[Blackrose]

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum. I thought I would take the time to post a comment, seeing how it has been so long since my last post. Also, this is a subject that I enjoy talking (or writing) about.

Originally Posted by Agaliarept

I don't know what has been said but as I am, I take beliefs from many religions and mix them for myself.

I, myself, am quite ecclectic, taking inspiration from a variety of sources. I believe that most modern religions have been influenced at least a little by other sources. For instance it is fairly safe to say that duality as a religious philosophy arose from Zoroastrian sources. The Luciferian Path has had many sources that have made up the various branches of it. Depending on what sources and to what degree those sources influenced a sect determines the form of Luciferian belief system in the modern day.

Originally Posted by Agaliarept

As a Luciferian follower of sorts, I must say that Lucifer as the light-bearer is not Satan, the adversary. No where in holy scripture does it say the Lucifer becomes Satan. Satan as it stands is a seperate being from Lucifer.

Who ever said that either Satan or Lucifer were "beings" at all. I am and have been a Luciferian for the last 23 years, and I have come to the view point that there is only one source. That source would be comparable with the qabbalistic Ain Soph Ar, being everything and nothing, and full of a potentialities, beyond understanding let alone being able to limit it to a description or a name. All the "godforms" or god names are just deific mask for aspects of the source. Many times the same aspect of the source will be known by a multitude of names.

Satan according to the Old Testament was not a being, more of a concept. I believe that they sometimes saw YHVH as a satan. When YHVH set his face against Israel he became a 'satan' to it.

While the same is true of Lucifer, no where is Lucifer a being in the bible (unless you count the verse in Isiah (How art thou fallen...) where it refers to the King of Babalon.

Does this mean they can not be used as deific mask for an aspect of the source. Certianly not, because all things spring from the source. Many of the ancient religions clothed wisdom in myth. For example look at the mythologies of the Greeks, Romans, Norse, and many others. Do you think they believed such things as literal? I don't think any age that gave use some of our greatest philosophers was that ignorant. Rather they used the symbolism of myth to explain great mysteries of the cosmos. The gods were the forces of Nature personified.

Thus, I see Satan and Lucifer as the same force, yet a different aspect or having different qualities.

Originally Posted by Agaliarept

It is said that Lucifer conscripted Satan and an ancient earth god, which the name escapes me at the moment, in the battle against the so called "God."

Could you, mayhaps, be refering to Gog and Magog or even Behemoth?

Originally Posted by Agaliarept

Lucifer is infact acting as hundreds of other gods have for 1000s of years.

Of course, it is the same mythology as all the other religions over the ages in a new wrapper. Just they changed some of the dogma, you know the "Thou shall.." and Thou shall nots"

Originally Posted by Agaliarept

Now also, Jesus Christ claims to be the morning star, but as it stands Lucifer is the morning star. So if that is true then the full manifestation of christ must be Lucifer, which, ineffect would recreate christianity.

Actually, there are sects of Gnosticism that believe just that.

[Iacchus]

The only time that the Bible mentions Lucifer, is in reference to the of King Babylon. ~ Isaiah 14 Whereas the worship of Satan, is none other than the worship of self.

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Iacchus

Whereas the worship of Satan, is none other than the worship of self.

And, when you think about it, it probably isn't altogether different than the notion of "an eye for an eye," meaning not to return evil for evil, as Jesus refers to in Matthew 5:38-39.

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by lightlucifer

Hi all intersetd in the subject of lucifarianism and i knw i mispelt that
bad since i am a lucifarianist. but

any way

there is something that all lucifarians should know. Lucifer is no longer one of the fallen. YOu heard me right. now i know i sound insane. but meh. it has happened he has been allowed back into heavan.

G'day lightlucifer!
You don't sound insane to this one. Your intuition is spot on in fact!

We meet the Redeemed Lucifer in the condition between the Gate of Death and the Gate of Birth. However the unredeemed Lucifer still haunts the Earth- he would have been gobbled up by the Shaytan/Ahrimanic Dragon but the Progressive Powers are preventing that. The unredeemed Lucifer is known as Siva in India.

This is right, it is very confusing and easily misunderstood.


Here is Rudolph Steiner's quote:
Deed of Christ: Lecture 2: The Deed of Christ and the Opposing Spiritual Powers. Lucifer, Ahriman, Asuras.

"That man is capable of this, that he is capable of understanding Christ, that Lucifer, resurrected in a new form, can unite with Christ as the
good Spirit - this, as prophecy still, was told by Christ Himself to those
around Him, when He said: "Ye shall be illumined by the new Spirit, by the
Holy Spirit!" This "Holy Spirit" is none other than the Spirit through
whom man can apprehend what Christ has wrought. Christ desired not merely to work, but also to be apprehended, to be understood. Therefore the sending of the Spirit by whom men are inspired, the sending of the "Holy spirit", is implicit in Christianity.

"In the spiritual sense, Whitsuntide belongs inseparably to Easter.
This "Holy Spirit" is none other than the Lucifer-Spirit, resurrected now
in higher, purer glory - the Spirit of independent understanding,
wisdom-inwoven. Christ Himself foretold that this Spirit would come to men
after Him, and in the light of this Spirit their labors must proceed.
What is it that works onward in the light of this Spirit? The world-stream
of spiritual science, if rightly conceived! What is this spiritual science? It
is the wisdom of the Spirit, the wisdom that lifts into the full light of
consciousness that in Christianity which would otherwise remain in the
unconscious. The torch of the resurrected Lucifer, of the Lucifer now
transformed into the good, blazons the way for Christ. Lucifer is the
bearer of the Light - Christ is the Light! As the word itself denotes,
Lucifer is the "Bearer of the Light". That is what the spiritual scientific
movement should be, that is implicit in it.

The Holy Grail was fashioned from a stone that was knocked out of Lucifer's crown by Michael. Dr. Steiner talks about the crown as a corona of spirits and one in particular that fell in order to redeem humnanity.

I think that Steiner's teaching is that certain Luciferic spirits
where given a choice to follow Christ in the Ninth century- thus the
importance of that time.
Consider too, the nature of Prometheus- the Greek Lucifer.
As I posted previously:
Prometheus is representative of the Man of the fifth subrace (fifth Post Atlantean epoch.)
(Prometheus being the one who nicked the fire principle from the gods
themselves.)

Hearty Greetings,
Br.Bruce