Luciferianism

[Blackrose]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

And what of compassion?

What of compassion? You must also remember that Satanism/Luciferianism is made up of people just as any other belief system. For the most part though my compassion, my love, is reserved for those of my inner circle of friends and family. Does this mean that I won't help somebody in need. depends on the situation.

A woman on the street begging for money to get something to eat. Do I give her the money? NO! what I did was offer to go to a fast food place across the street with her to buy her a burger and fries. She turned me down. The fact is that had I given her the money she claimed she needed to buy food with would have been spent on crack cocaine had I given it to her. Now, would that really help her?

I do have a soft spot for children (I say children, not brats) and animals though. All things have there proper time and place. Mercy and Justice must be balanced.

[Blackrose]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrose
It has been said that it is the humain thing to be charitable and give to the poor and needy. Yet, would it not be better to make a person work for what they get.



Certainly it would, but what if a person is unable to provide for themselves. Drought ridden countries in Africa cannot feed themselves by any amount of work. Would you simply let them die?

Well, to answer your question, I have done nothing to feed them. Have you? Why should I worry about feeding people in another country, help educate them, and develope their technology? So, one day they can go to war with us? We helped out Iraq, and now we are at war with them. (granted there is alterior motives fueling that war, but still you get my point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrose
It has been said that we should "Love thy neighbor as thyself. "and again, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Yet, I think it much better to live by the creed of "Do unto others as they do unto you." For if everyone else is treating people the way they wish to be treated, why treat them as you would want to be treated when it might not be how they would want to be treated?



If we all treated others as we wish to be treated ourselves, there would be no hate, no war, no oppression, because none of us wish to be treated badly.

Alternatively, if we "do unto others as they do unto you" then every tiny offense would require retribution which would lead to a constant cycle of suffering on earth. He treats me bad so I treat him bad so he treats me bad so I treat him bad..... etc.

I disagree, their are people of all sort of differing temperments. Not all people want to be treated the same. Just as surely you would not expect a masochist to want to be treated the same as a sadist or vice versa. everybody is an individual and need to be dealt with on an individual level, according to their merit.

As far as your theory of an endless cycle of suffering, I do not see things that way either. Surely, it would result in survival of the fittest. That is the way things are in nature. Man with all the laws he has made to coddle the weak and inferior has managed to isolate people from the full brunt of the consequences of their actions.

Example: I have some young punks that live across the street from me. They think they are gangsters and can do whatever they want. They broke into our home and stole $2000-$3000 worth of our belongings. My girlfriend walked in on them as they made their escape. One of them taking a swing at her on his way out, so knows what they look like. She called the law. She was told that there was nothing they could do, their hands were tied.

Conversely, if I had handled things the way I wanted to, I would have went across the street kicked their door in and beat them within an inch of their meaningless lives, making examples of them for any that may in the future have ideas of invading my lair. And taking back the stuff they stole from us, which by now has been pawned sold or the like so we'll never see it again.

Thus, if I had did things my way, we would have our property back. They would think twice before messing with us again. And life could go on as normal as possible.

As things are though, there are so many screwed up laws passed by the bleeding hearts that the law is now on the side of the criminals. If I had done things my way, I would most likely be the one being locked up while the true criminals went scot free.

They know the hands of the law are tied and thus consistantly do things to try to provoke me and my girlfriend. Thus, there is endless harassment and still the hands of the law are tied.

When I have finally had my fill of it, I will show everyone my hands are not tied. Love thy neighbor? please, take your idealistic notions to somebody else that may buy into them. Myself, I am well aware that the world today is a jungle and it is made up of those that use and abuse, and those that are used and abused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrose
If humans ceased wholly to prey upon each other, could they continue to exist?



Can you give any reason why they could not?

See example given above.

[RubySera_Martin]

Blackrose, I don't understand why the hands of the law are tied if you identified the thieves, caught them red-handed, and proved that your stuff was taken. I can understand why you wouldn't feel like helping anyone out if this is how you get treated but I don't understand why you get treated this way by the law. The fact may be that I am naive and inexperienced but I am eager to learn...

[Blackrose]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

Blackrose, I don't understand why the hands of the law are tied if you identified the thieves, caught them red-handed, and proved that your stuff was taken. I can understand why you wouldn't feel like helping anyone out if this is how you get treated but I don't understand why you get treated this way by the law. The fact may be that I am naive and inexperienced but I am eager to learn...

I do not quite understand what is going on with the law enforcement here either. A report was taken and some detectives were supposed to contact my girlfriend about pursuing the matter futher, yet three weeks have passed since they were supposed to be in contact with her. We have more or less given up on the law and I am waiting for them to give me an excuse to make an example of them. One more time of messing with or property.

I am not matterialistic, so the things which were took don't bother me so much as them invading my lair. (other than the fact that they stole my case of software. So, now I have several programs on my computer that I can not use because I need the disk in order to use them. Ahh, such is life in the south side of St Joseph, MO.

Blessings,
Blackrose

[RubySera_Martin]

A report was taken and some detectives were supposed to contact my girlfriend about pursuing the matter futher, yet three weeks have passed since they were supposed to be in contact with her.

You are to be commended for your patience. Three weeks!!! That is a long time. I would probably have shown up at the police station long before this and demanded to speak with the top sergeant with a request for accountability. I don't know. This simply isn't right. They do, I believe, live off the tax-payer's money.

[Blackrose]

To get back to the topic of this thread, here are two articles by one of my mentors, Michael Ford. I feel they may help those interested to understand Luciferianism as I have come to know it.

http://www.chaostatic.com/paradigm/w...witchcraft.php
and
http://www.chaostatic.com/paradigm/w...itchcraft2.php

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Blackrose

coming out for Satan? Gothy-cool exterior? Not sure I follow you on that part of your post.

The point is that there are those of us, that unlike the masses of sheep with their herd mentality, who are more akin to goats walking against the grain and the socially accepted norms. Seeing how Christianity is the religion of the biggest majority of people in our area of the world, and the opponent of the Christian god in their scriptures is Satan, and how the meaning of Satan is 'opposite', opposer, accuser, I see Satan as a fitting symbol for such a movement.

The point is to get people to actually think for themselves rather than living like sheep blindly following to BS dogma spoon-fed to them, (at times force-fed) question ALL things. For there is no truth, only the lie. The lie is a lie because all thing must change, there is no constant. To not change is to stagnate and die.

Do you now comprehend the point? Satan = Opposite/Adversary to Stagnation.

O.K., I take your point. So it is about being antithetical. See, for me that's pointless. Why be antithetical in persuit of being self-made? It's still borrowing, do you see what I mean? I'm just saying that for me, you do whatever you want.

There's only one reference to Lucifer in the Bible. It's in Isaah, and it refers to the king of Babylon. Now, this king certainly was self-made, but he was a human being.

Interesting links BTW, thanks.

Chris

[Blackrose]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

There's only one reference to Lucifer in the Bible. It's in Isaah, and it refers to the king of Babylon. Now, this king certainly was self-made, but he was a human being.

Interesting links BTW, thanks.

Chris

It matters not how much Lucifer is mentioned in the bible. There is a whole mythos that has been built up around Lucifer. Milton's "Paradise Lost" did alot to shape that mythos. But Lucifer was actually a pre-Christian lesser Roman god. For most Luciferians though its just one of several architype to be worked with.

BTW: I came across this article on the www and thought maybe a few of you might like to read it.

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Com...iferianism.htm

[wil]

namaste black rose,

If I am reading and understanding correctly...

a. you prefer to not be one of the sheeple.

b. you consider yourself a realist, a pragmatist

c. you align yourself with Lucifer to take a stand, start the conversation, open eyes.

But my question is, aren't you still defining a dualistic nature? It seems you ractual goal is more in line for one thinking rationally and not fighting the whole good bad, right wrong debate...but in order to do so you picke a side?

[bananabrain]

an allegedly "infinite" being who feels jealousy?

What is your reasoning behind Satan being an agent of G!D? If that is true the Bible just looks like a giant hoax! I'm not trying to mock you, just please tell me why you think that, im interested.

i think you both need to understand that what you are objecting to here is basically a bad translation you are taking out of context. G!D doesn't "feel" any of these things; that's just the way we, with our limited capacities, understand how the Text in quesion deals with the Jewish people's relation with the Divine - when we do not worship G!D as we should, we jeopardise our relationship with G!D. needless to say, we do not have a figure which equates to this quasi-god, for there is no G!D but G!D; in our religion, the figure of ha-satan is a strictly angelic sort of "district attorney" or public prosecutor. from time to time he engages in 'stings', as well - it's all in his remit.

Lucifer was equated with Satan by St. Jerome in his Vulgate which claimed he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempted Adam & Eve to transgress. He erroneously translated 'Heylel', which means Venus in Hebrew, into Lucifer and an allusion to Satan when it wasn't.

venus (the planet) in hebrew is "nogah". i don't think this is correct.

Yet, I think it much better to live by the creed of "Do unto others as they do unto you." For if everyone else is treating people the way they wish to be treated, why treat them as you would want to be treated when it might not be how they would want to be treated? And it has also been said, "Love thy enemies."

satanists therefore ought to be interested in game theory - the evidence is that "do unto others as they do unto you", otherwise known as the "tit for tat" strategy, is as far as i know (although please correct me) far less effective than more forgiving versions.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Blackrose]

Originally Posted by wil

namaste black rose,
If I am reading and understanding correctly...

a. you prefer to not be one of the sheeple.

This is correct.

b. you consider yourself a realist, a pragmatist

yes, to an extent. yet, also a bit of a mystic too. There must be a balance. Light-Shadow, Angel-Beast, intellect-emotion, flesh-spirit, ect.

c. you align yourself with Lucifer to take a stand, start the conversation, open eyes.

Not sure I understand what you are talking about,"take a stand". What against IHVH and the Christians? Nah, I don't think so. I don't care enough about them.

Its more that I align myself with Lucifer and other architype of my Path through ritual and various other me means as a form of spiritual alchemy to futher my spiritual growth. Developing both the 'Holy Gaurdian Angel' (Higher Self) and the Beast (Shadow).

But my question is, aren't you still defining a dualistic nature? It seems you ractual goal is more in line for one thinking rationally and not fighting the whole good bad, right wrong debate...but in order to do so you picke a side?

[ETS2K]

What is good & what is evil? Who decides?

[flowperson]

The Beholder of each....

flow....

[JustifiedByFaith]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

Firstly, I just want to clarify that I do not worship Satan, I may have given that impression, sorry.

I cannot see why anyone would ever worship the Satan presented by Christianity. Dispite any benefits of revenge or temporary power, to do so would mean an eternal life of pain in the fires of Hell.

There must be some alternate view of Satan among his followers.

Dear Awaiting_the_fifth,

I would suggest that alternate views of Satan outside of Christianity as presented would likely give one a false perception of him. That is my opinion.

[moseslmpg]

OK, from what I've read in this thread, it seems that Luciferian/Satanic morality and ethics consists of "I'll do whatever the **** I feel like, to whomever I feel like, whenever I feel like."

As bananabrain brought up, aren't Satanist/Luciferian ethics sort of counter-productive to other human's development, insofar as other humans even matter since I get the feeling that they don't. It doesn't seem that it would help one's spiritual development that much either. Hating one's enemies and beating people in cold blood don't seem to be very conducive to enlightenment or endarkment or whatever you want to call the aim of spiritual development.

Are there any absolute bases for morality or a code of conduct? Is the goal of the LHP, by not denying any part of themselves, to use a Kabbalistic metaphor, to create a new tree rather than ascend to the Source? Also, what happens after you become as gods? I assume there would be no reason to act selfish any more, so you could stimulate gnosis in others.

I'm not trying to get banned or anything, it's just that this is my impression from what I've read so far, with possibly the effect of such antithetical labels.