Luciferianism

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by Satanist

Feeding the poor is opposite to true humanism.

Humanism is the philosophy that humanity is in the centre of the universe and that we must develop.

That is an interesting interpretation of humanism, and I have no sources to contradict it. However, the question was not about humanism but rather humanitarianism. Feeding the poor IS the humanitarian thing to do, would you do it?

Originally Posted by Blackrose

It has been said that it is the humain thing to be charitable and give to the poor and needy. Yet, would it not be better to make a person work for what they get.

Certainly it would, but what if a person is unable to provide for themselves. Drought ridden countries in Africa cannot feed themselves by any amount of work. Would you simply let them die?

Originally Posted by Blackrose

It has been said that we should "Love thy neighbor as thyself. "and again, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Yet, I think it much better to live by the creed of "Do unto others as they do unto you." For if everyone else is treating people the way they wish to be treated, why treat them as you would want to be treated when it might not be how they would want to be treated?

If we all treated others as we wish to be treated ourselves, there would be no hate, no war, no oppression, because none of us wish to be treated badly.

Alternatively, if we "do unto others as they do unto you" then every tiny offense would require retribution which would lead to a constant cycle of suffering on earth. He treats me bad so I treat him bad so he treats me bad so I treat him bad..... etc.

Originally Posted by Blackrose

If humans ceased wholly to prey upon each other, could they continue to exist?

Can you give any reason why they could not?

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by Satanist

Feeding the poor is opposite to true humanism.

Humanism is the philosophy that humanity is in the centre of the universe and that we must develop.

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

That is an interesting interpretation of humanism, and I have no sources to contradict it. However, the question was not about humanism but rather humanitarianism. Feeding the poor IS the humanitarian thing to do, would you do it?

Satanist's depiction of humanism is definitely not in agreement with the statements of principles used as the foundation for groups like the American Humanist Association. Their manifesto for instance states:
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

They also state in the manifesto:
Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.
and perhaps more clear:
Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.

The International Humanist and Ethical Union has been very clear in its support for charitable works including feeding the poor. They even said in their official endorsement of a UN program to feed the hungry that:
We welcome the initiative of [the UN feed-the-hungry program] as a notable example of humanist action...

Another major group, Humanist International, is more political in their goals. From what I have read it is based more on a subset of humanism, "new humanism", which is also sometimes accused of being Marxist-humanism.

The Humanist International statement of principles is as follows:
Humanists are all those who struggle against violence and discrimination, and who propose greater freedom of choice for the human being.

Humanists reject the formal political democracy that prevails in the world today, which is manipulated by money and which deprives people of real freedom of choice.

Humanists promote human beings and their fundamental needs as the central value and concern in society with no other values or priorities imposed above them.

This principle has enormous consequences, particularly at a time and in a system where money is the central value and everything else is subject to its ‘tyranny’.

We have adopted, as one of our founding documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of the United Nations, which despite requiring a more profound definition of human beings and their rights, is nevertheless an extremely relevant document.

I think it's fair to say that the majority of people involved in the humanist movement support charitable works rather than considering them to be detrimental to human society.

[bananabrain]

having read the "satanic bible" and "satan speaks", i must admit to having a soft spot for anton lavey (or howard levy, to give him his birth name) partly because i appreciate his wit. in fact, i think he'd be tickled to be included in a list of disaffected jews who started their own religions, including:

- jesus & paul
- sigmund freud
- karl marx

i think lavey's idea of "why the hell should you love your enemies?" is one that deserves respect, but it is important to note that "traditional" satanists tend to expect a far higher standard of behaviour of people than your average liberal (or humanist!) in its own way, it's a product of the 60s. anyway, nice to have some of you here. feel free to poke, prod and deflate as you like - but do so with humour!

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Dondi]

So what is a Satanists concept of love? Do you love your neighbor as yourself? Is it better to give or receive?

[Saul]

Interesting discussion,

However it amazes me, as was suggested in the begining of the thread, that some people would believe in multiple Gods and take Satan as a equal to the Lord G-d himself.

As a monotheist the idea that Satan, or any other creature or force in the Universe would have power anywhere near equal to G-d is ridiculously childish.

At the same time you are entitled to believe what you like, and this is a open forum.

But i have to ask; If G-d won the war against Satan, by "secretly invading paradise" and casting him out, why wouldent he destroy him? why would he let Satan go?

In my view Satan is nothing more then a loyal servant of the Lord, an "agent provocateur" if you like.

"Hear O Israel! The Lord is your God, the Lord is One"

[stevemb88]

Originally Posted by Saul

Interesting discussion,

However it amazes me, as was suggested in the begining of the thread, that some people would believe in multiple Gods and take Satan as a equal to the Lord G-d himself.

As a monotheist the idea that Satan, or any other creature or force in the Universe would have power anywhere near equal to G-d is ridiculously childish.

At the same time you are entitled to believe what you like, and this is a open forum.

But i have to ask; If G-d won the war against Satan, by "secretly invading paradise" and casting him out, why wouldent he destroy him? why would he let Satan go?

In my view Satan is nothing more then a loyal servant of the Lord, an "agent provocateur" if you like.

"Hear O Israel! The Lord is your God, the Lord is One"

I can answer your question about God letting Satan go; Matthew 5:44 "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." He was setting an example that the evil and the good are all equal UNTIL Judgement Day, besides wouldn't you rather be destroyed than sent to Hell for the rest of eternity?

What is your reasoning behind Satan being an agent of God? If that is true the Bible just looks like a giant hoax! I'm not trying to mock you, just please tell me why you think that, im interested.

[queenofsheba]

To hell with Satan!

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by queenofsheba

To hell with Satan!

Yeah, he's been there erm a while...

[SHYSTAR]

Hi, everyone;
Q. Does the five pointed star (point downwards) symbolise satan in anyway?

- sorry for any interuption to your discussion , this kinda seemed relevant to the topic - p.s i'm new ( sorry for any boo boo's)

love always

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by SHYSTAR

Hi, everyone;
Q. Does the five pointed star (point downwards) symbolise satan in anyway?

- sorry for any interuption to your discussion , this kinda seemed relevant to the topic - p.s i'm new ( sorry for any boo boo's)

love always

There is a good discussion of the various meanings of the pentagram (both one-point-up and two-points-up) including how it is used by Satanists at this website.

Just like Christians are not the only ones to use a cross in their religious symbolism, Satanists are hardly the only ones to have spiritual meaning attached to the five-pointed star symbol.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by SHYSTAR

Hi, everyone;
Q. Does the five pointed star (point downwards) symbolise satan in anyway?

- sorry for any interuption to your discussion , this kinda seemed relevant to the topic - p.s i'm new ( sorry for any boo boo's)

love always

The inverted pentagram is the face of the goat...... The two top his horns the left and right his ears and the bottom one his chinny chin chin

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

The inverted pentagram is the face of the goat...... The two top his horns the left and right his ears and the bottom one his chinny chin chin

yes that is what i have seen also.

i think this one is kind of cool from that site.

[Bandit]

btw, i have a three foot, 5 pointed star. it goes out with red white & blue lights on the 4th. orange lights on halloween &, red & green lights for Christmas. it is positioned on an angle so there is no 1 point going up & no 1 point going down.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Bandit

btw, i have a three foot, 5 pointed star. it goes out with red white & blue lights on the 4th. orange lights on halloween &, red & green lights for Christmas. it is positioned on an angle so there is no 1 point going up & no 1 point going down.

I have an inverted pentagram on my neck.... :\

[taijasi]

(Chong): One time I played Black Sabbath at 78 speed, man.

(Cheech): And then what happened?

(Chong): I saw God!

... and lo, He was a/n (upright, 5-pointed) Star!

andrew