LoVe aNd ReLiGioNs ... ?!?!?!

[thipps]

Originally Posted by Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Although Christians and Jews don't refer to G!d as Allah, they do acknowledge the Higher Power that the Muslims call Allah while religions outside of this triad don't (at least, not necessarily.)

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
'table' is right. There are millions of Coptic christians in arab lands. Arabic is thier mother tongue. They all use the word 'Allah' for God. If you look at the arabic bible, its filled with the word 'Allah'. Its there in Genesis 1:1, the first verse of the bible too. You can google for an arabic bible and check it out.
Hope this clears it up.

[muslima]

Assalamalaikum to all,
.Iam new to this board i have read abt the differences between shia and sunni i was surprised to know my question is can a sunni muslim girl marry a shia r these ppl kafir dont they read Quran?
If no sunni muslim is readyto marry this girl coz of her past can she marry shia or should she rather stay single and wait for sunni boy..?
any help would b appreciated.

[table]

Originally Posted by muslima

Assalamalaikum to all,
.Iam new to this board i have read abt the differences between shia and sunni i was surprised to know my question is can a sunni muslim girl marry a shia r these ppl kafir dont they read Quran?
If no sunni muslim is readyto marry this girl coz of her past can she marry shia or should she rather stay single and wait for sunni boy..?
any help would b appreciated.

If that 'shia' testifies that there is only One God worthy of worship without any partners or equals, and testifies that Muhammad is God's Messenger, that person is a Muslim.

[muslima]

thanks for the reply table..how can i know abt their doctrine and i have read their shahada.and prayer is different is it not innovations???

[thipps]

Originally Posted by muslima

thanks for the reply table..how can i know abt their doctrine and i have read their shahada.and prayer is different is it not innovations???

Salam,
well, you could read a book on it. that would be best. you will hear alot of things. Best to read a book on it.

[muslima]

What kind of book u meant can u suggest any.
any help would b appreciated.

[bananabrain]

If i tell them "it's a practice commanded by G!D" and stop there, then i'm telling them nothing new really.

oh, i know, but to insist on rational justifications for everything is to miss the point of faith in Divine commandment - in my book it's tantamount to what you guys call shirk

The medical aspects of the matter was to increase some knowledge in the matter cause alot of people think that it is simply unnecessary or is unhygienic or just downright mutilation.

i do understand what you're saying; i just think there's a difference between *refuting* a claim that something is unhygienic in medical terms and explicitly stating medical justification. that can potentially leave you open to counter-refutations by people who know more about medicine than you do - and, moreover, you're turning it from a religious question to a medical one and, in such a question, to the rational observer, medical opinion will naturally be more authoritative. that's all i'm saying - i don't think you and i actually disagree about this. i just think there are problems with justification of religious practices drawing on authority from outside the religion, but this approach:

Questions are often asked cause people are curious as to WHY G!D has commanded a certain thing. Questions are encouraged and answers given.

i have absolutely no problem with questions being encouraged and discussion resulting from it, but EASY ANSWERS are another thing. if you tell someone that, say, halal is "scientifically provable to be more conducive to animal welfare", what do you do when somebody brings a *scientific* proof that it isn't? do you, as a non-scientist (i assume, like me) start to argue about science? we run the risk of making ourselves look ridiculous in scientific terms, never mind religious ones. i also have a problem with simple answers. in my view, both islam and judaism are complex, sophisticated, integrated systems and increased faith comes from an appreciation of the power and sophistication of the thought that went into them, both human and Divine, not from parlour tricks which are meant to show the superiority of religious thought.

G!D has told us what to do and it is our duty to say 'O Lord, we hear and we obey'. What i have spoken of comes afterwards i.e. the 'why was this command given' .. in the meantime, we are not disobeying, we are still following the command.

this principle is called in judaism na'aseh ve-nishmah which is actually *doing* *before* understanding. it's completely counterintuitive (at least to a secularly and critically educated mind) and requires a great deal of effort to understand why it works as it does. i'm glad to have you here, thipps, you seem to be a thinker.

muslima - thipps is right, you should read some books. the trouble is that you have to appreciate the perspective from which books are written. obviously sunni authors are likely to criticise shia and vice versa - they have genuine and important differences. you seem to think that simply reading the Qur'an will enable someone to know exactly what to do. this is, in my opinion, a mistake. the Qur'an is *really difficult* and requires expert help and interpretation, which leads one to a teacher. then, you take a risk on the right or wrong teacher. personally, i think that a teacher who gives you simple answers will be wrong in the long run. life is complex and the thought of Allah is even more complex. on that basis, it's incredibly important that you don't jump to conclusions about who is a "kafir" and who isn't. if you go to a simplistic teacher all he will tell you is that a kafir is someone who doesn't agree with him.

the important thing is that you are thinking, asking and discussing. don't just accept what people tell you just because they know more than you - every book, like every teacher, can be contradicted.

a book i can thoroughly recommend is karen armstrong's "a history of G!D", which should give you an idea about the development of ideas of G!D in judaism, christianity and islam. alternatively, i also suggest "the battle for G!D", which is a history of fundamentalism, showing how some jews, christians and muslims through history have become intolerant of others and of modernity.

feel free to ask more questions, though. i'm not a muslim, but i do consider myself very pro-islam and may be able to help. however, please try to write in full sentences - a web forum is not for text messages.

b'shalom/was-salaam

bananabrain

[thipps]

Originally Posted by muslima

What kind of book u meant can u suggest any.
any help would b appreciated.

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
No, i cant suggest one. I have never read a book on the subject but since one of my closest friends is shi'ite, i had trouble believing alot of the things i had heard. I asked about some of those things, and he told me, there is no such thing. I admit that i did not ask him all the things that i had heard cause uptil now, nothing had turned out to be true. some of it might be true but how much and to what extent is something i guess people have to decide for themselves as they begin to gain more and more knowledge.
If you have a Darussalam book store, go there and ask them for one and they will inshallah give you one.
ma'ssalamah.

[thipps]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

oh, i know, but to insist on rational justifications for everything is to miss the point of faith in Divine commandment - in my book it's tantamount to what you guys call shirk

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Please look at what i said before as a whole. what i said at the end explains what i said in the beginning. i guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this. I dont see it as you are describing it since we still follow His commands even if we didnt understand it as we are limited beings in our understanding. And, it isnt shirk especially since you base your conclusion on something that i dont agree with is happening here. Violation of the Tawheed [literally means 'unification' which, in Islam, is not merely monotheism]is shirk. Tawheed can be divided into 3 categories. What you might be referring to is violation of what is called Tawheed al-Ibaadah i.e. Following the commandmants of God and asserting that this ibaadah [means servitude & worship]is due to God alone and no one else. And, as i explained before, understanding or no understanding, we say 'O Lord, we hear and we obey' as we know and believe that God knows best.
Just an example where one cant give any *scientific* justification. Sometimes it is asked "why muslims pray 5 times a day. why not, say, 3?" There is no scientific answer to this. The answer is simple: God commanded it so. Do it.

I wish to say something in general to what you said in length afterwards.
Quran will never go against established science.

in my view, both islam and judaism are complex, sophisticated, integrated systems

I know they are complex as they are a way of life. I expect nothing less.
ma'ssalamah.

[bananabrain]

Tawheed can be divided into 3 categories. What you might be referring to is violation of what is called Tawheed al-Ibaadah i.e. Following the commandmants of God and asserting that this ibaadah [means servitude & worship]is due to God alone and no one else. And, as i explained before, understanding or no understanding, we say 'O Lord, we hear and we obey' as we know and believe that God knows best.

ah, i see. that makes a lot more sense. i knew there would be a more subtle dynamic at work.

Just an example where one cant give any *scientific* justification. Sometimes it is asked "why muslims pray 5 times a day. why not, say, 3?" There is no scientific answer to this. The answer is simple: God commanded it so. Do it.

this is called in judaism the category of laws known as huqqim - laws that one can justify rationally are known as mishpatim.

I wish to say something in general to what you said in length afterwards. Quran will never go against established science.

Torah is the same - but the distinction is a fine one which is not often appreciated.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[thipps]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

Torah is the same - but the distinction is a fine one which is not often appreciated.

Assalam-o-Alaikum,
The fact that the Torah would also be similar in this regard does not surprise me. I expect nothing less from God.

Wanted to ask you something else. to my understanding, 'shalom' is the same greeting as 'salam' which is what we say. but what does "b'shalom" mean?

[muslima]

Assalaamalaikum,
thanks thipps and bananabrain for the help.
thipps, yes we have darussalambook store i will try to find some book
Can u tell me how do i ask him about his doctrine without hurting their feelings.
or Does anyone know anysite where i can learn aboout their doctrine atleast.


bananabrain - "karen armstrong's "a history of G!D", do i need to buy the book or can i find it online is it available on internet?

Jazakallahkhair.

[thipps]

Salam,
Just ask them for a book which explains the difference in Sunni and shia beliefs and doctrine. Inshallah, thier feelings will not be hurt. A friend of mine did exactly that.. no one's feelings were hurt.

[muslima]

thanks thipps...

[bananabrain]

b'shalom means "in peace". i notice you're in saudi; i'm in london - it is a wonderful thing that we can be engaging in dialogue here in this space. if only more contact could take place between like-minded people rather than propaganda, fear and dehumanisation.

muslima - i'm not aware that the book is online. you can easily buy it at amazon, or barnes & noble, or any of the online booksellers, though.

b'shalom - and eid mubarak!

bananabrain