Loss of belief/loss of faith

[Tariki]

Originally Posted by JosephM

Hi Tariki,

From my Christian perspective, there is a hugh difference.
Belief is a mental conviction that may or may not be true. One can choose to believe whatever they want. Belief is not knowing because in knowing there is no need for belief.
On the other hand, Faith as defined in the Bible in Hebrews 11:1
" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. "

is having the evidence of things not seen. It is the invisible substance of which things not yet seen are made. In my experience it is 'knowing' that comes as a revelation and bypasses mind. It is a oneness with source that knows and requires no belief. It is indeed a letting go of 'self'.

Loss of belief to me has been shown to be a positive thing. Our programmed belief systems lock us in to possible fallacy and it is very difficult to break free or be open to truth. You might believe I am going to give you an item. Once I give it to you, there is of course no need to believe I gave it to you. Belief is no more necessary. If one wishes to hold on to beliefs it is best to take them lightly, otherwise one will become closeminded.

Loss of faith on the other hand is an impossibility in a sense. How can that (truth/knowing) which is always present ever be lost? Faith is not something to be found. It is only realized when obscurations to it are removed.

Just another point of view to consider.

Love in Christ,
JM

Joseph,

Thanks. Yes, I agree. Beliefs for me belong to the false self that seeks its own deification; they are always a product of the past. In as much as they are of the past they could be understood as embracing experience...................yet as I quoted before..."faith transcends experience."

I think there has been a little confusion in my own mind (a little!!??) Perhaps when a fundamental trust is interpreted/transposed into a "belief" that therefore all will be "well" for us now and forever..................."well" as - again - interpreted by the desires of our false self/ego........then it would seem a good thing to lose it. Yet true faith/trust goes beyond this. As you say, it is there when all obscurations are removed. It is there as a "given". A gift. We have to be ready for anything, the feast or the fast!!

In Pure Land Buddhism the Primal Vow is understood as the ultimate Will of Reality-as-is that ALL will come to "enlightenment", that in fact ALL are already enlightened. The unfolding of the Vow Mind is the unfolding of an ongoing reality that works for the good of all. It is the "obscurations" that need to be removed. "Beliefs" can become a network of obscurations that cloud the unfolding of truth/grace within each moment.


(Just reading through what I have written..............As InLove said earlier, this can be confusing enough already!!)