Losing your religion?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all,


in a related vein...

does anyone have a religious belief which advocates that the adherent stop believeing it or practicing it, at some future time?

Buddha Dharma has this view, however, i am curious if other Dharma traditions and Adharma traditions may also have something like this.

metta,

~v

[wil]

does anyone have a religious belief which advocates that the adherent stop believeing it or practicing it, at some future time?

interesting concept...reminds me when I read books where in the introduction says, "you've read enough books, contemplated enough thought, quit reading, start doing!", or "if you haven't done the exercises, answered the questions, and seen results from the last books you've read, put this one down and go back to the others"

is there a time frame or a date when you are to quit practicing?

[_Z_]

Hi vajra

does anyone have a religious belief which advocates that the adherent stop believeing it or practicing it, at some future time?

Buddha Dharma has this view, however, i am curious if other Dharma traditions and Adharma traditions may also have something like this.

Sounds interesting! Could you elaborate please!





Z

[pohaikawahine]

as of this moment in time I have no formal religion to lose and I study and appreciate all traditions .... the original way of my people, kanaka maoli, was simply to live a life of balance and harmony .... the words "he hawai'i au" mean literally "I am Hawaii", but it is not the islands .... I am Hawaii because I give breath to the values of our ancient culture by the way I live my life .... it is a culture before the arrival of kings and queens when community councils of elders made decisions (just so you don't mistake it for the stuff one reads about Hawaiian culture) .... I also believe that the sacred underlying message in most religions and ancient cultures is to live in balance and harmony with our earth, our universe,and each other .... if I were to choose a religion it would probably be Judiasm, I don't totally know why yet but it draws me like no other .... time will tell ,right now I am comfortable with where I am.... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Vaj!

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

does anyone have a religious belief which advocates that the adherent stop believeing it or practicing it, at some future time?

Buddha Dharma has this view, however, i am curious if other Dharma traditions and Adharma traditions may also have something like this.

About the closest I can come is a lesson I took from a passage in one of Paul's discourses, that for me paraphrased says to seek wisdom where one finds it. Sift through and throw away the garbage, but keep and hold those things that are good and wise. Mind you, these are my words, and the exact passage escapes me at this moment, but that is how I understand it.

[juantoo3]

As for the original question, I find an affinity towards Judaism as well. Although I feel an equal affinity with Native American beliefs. Not enough to convert to either one, but a deep desire to understand and appreciate both.

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by wil

interesting concept...reminds me when I read books where in the introduction says, "you've read enough books, contemplated enough thought, quit reading, start doing!"

Sounds like the on screen warning at the beginning of the movie, Fight Club,

"If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this is useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think everything you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told you should want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned.......Tyler"

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Wil,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by wil

interesting concept...reminds me when I read books where in the introduction says, "you've read enough books, contemplated enough thought, quit reading, start doing!", or "if you haven't done the exercises, answered the questions, and seen results from the last books you've read, put this one down and go back to the others"

is there a time frame or a date when you are to quit practicing?

well.. not so much a time frame or date, per se. Buddha Dharma uses the metaphor of "crossing to the other shore" to indicate the change in ones mind stream once they have Awoken.

our tradition has two sorts of dharmas, normal dharmas and Buddha dharmas. Buddha dharmas are different than normal dharmas in that they are to be left behind once one reaches the Other Shore. essentially, the Buddha Shakyamunis teachings are meant to inculcate experience, not doctrine.

as such, once you have the experience, you no longer need the words about said experience

metta,

~v

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Z,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by _Z_

Hi vajra





Sounds interesting! Could you elaborate please!





Z

did the previous posting clarify it enough?

this is, in my view, one of the main features of the Buddha Dharma. we rely upon the words and teachings et al until we, ourselves, have the Awakening experience at which point we no longer need to rely on the words and statements of others. as they say, we will know, for ourselves, if the water is warm or cold.

metta,

~v

[wil]

Namaste Vajradhara,

That is interesting, not what I thought.

In your definition, not quiting the religion but moving on from certain practices, I see parallels.

In the Bible, Paul says I die daily, and there is a saying that an acorn must die to become the oak.. the latter indicating we must quit our old (seed) ways and mentality in order to grow and become greater (the tree); in the former Paul indicating it is a never ending process.

In Sunday school as children we are taught basic biblical stories basid backgroudn meanings to them, and maybe some memroization of the book names or other concepts and relationships. As we grow we use that foundation to find deeper meaning, more appropriate for our age (as deemed my the church leaders), and some of the principles we learned are weak compared to the new meanings....we grow out of them. Moving onto msaters and docotaral level theology we learn that what we thought was 'gospel' or historical fact was allegory and story boards as well.

So yes we give up some old practices and concepts as we move ahead spiritually.

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Wil,

thank you for the post.



well.. not so much a time frame or date, per se. Buddha Dharma uses the metaphor of "crossing to the other shore" to indicate the change in ones mind stream once they have Awoken.

our tradition has two sorts of dharmas, normal dharmas and Buddha dharmas. Buddha dharmas are different than normal dharmas in that they are to be left behind once one reaches the Other Shore. essentially, the Buddha Shakyamunis teachings are meant to inculcate experience, not doctrine.

as such, once you have the experience, you no longer need the words about said experience

metta,

~v

aloha e v .... this makes a lot of sense .... one of my favorite quotes from the Matrix is "Sooner or later you going to relalize just as I did - there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path" .... to reach the other shore is to cross over the River Styx ( in greek mythology) and to reach paradise once you can get pass the three headed monster that guards the other side .... or in biblical terms to reach the other short is to cross the desert and reach the promised land .... I think it may all ultimately be the same experience, just described differently in different religions and traditions .... and as you state "once you have the experience, you no longer need the words about said experience" .... you just know it and everything changes ....perhaps all of lost religion long ago when we started looking outside of ourselves for the answers and for power .... all the time it waited for us within .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine

[dauer]

Vaj,

there's a passage I read, I think in the Mei Hashiloach, that seemed to be suggesting something very similar, that once a person attained a certain level they would no longer need the laws and restrictions they had been observing in order to attain that level. Found it. It's on Deut 30: 12-14. The Isbitzer quotes Zohar as to how the words of Torah seem beyond the sea, then he quotes Tanna Dvei Eliyahu (Zuta, Ch 12.) "A Parable. A mortal king builds a wall by way of which one enters vast palaces. In the wall he opens a narrow passageway, so narrow that one who does not love the king will not exert himself to enter. Yet one who truly loves him will push himself for he knows that after difficulty, great delights await him."

Then he explains how someone who doesn't understand Torah, the words seem very precious and high. Then when he comes to know the meaning "it is not in heaven, and not across the sea... but it is near unto you..." And so he says that Moses specifically put these words in this parsha, which follows the fiftieth parsha and thus at this point he had attained the fiftieth gate of understanding, the understanding that it is not in heaven but near.

And he explains that it means "even though a man needs fences and boundaries while he does not yet understand the words of Torah, once he understands them, he does not need this. 'It is not across the sea' means that he does not need to be far from the delights of the world, which is called 'a sea'" (he often relates water to desire because of how strong a desire thirst is in someone who has gone without water.) "Only at the beginning, for he can only initially enter into the words of Torah through great restraint and separation from earthly delight, but this is not the main principle..." and he does say that the main principle is doing God's will and goes on quite a bit longer, so that it looks like what he wants to do is have a person discard the negative mitzvot, which are the majority, and hold onto the positive mitzvot, whic h are a minority.

Dauer

[Vajradhara]

excellent!


thank you all for the replies!

metta,

~v

[_Z_]

Vajra,



Ah I see what you mean now! It’s a bit like the saying ‘the truth is naked’. When you are there it is all clear - you can see everything.



Thanx – see we can agree on some things.



Z

[eman]

Been there and done that I used to be Roman catholic, I was an altarboy, belonged to a catholic boyscout troop and almost went into a semiary, I wanted to become a preist.

What change every thing for me was thinking out side the box I read more than what was required so naturally I had many questions, the problem is even the clergy can not answer all.

Then while on my journey of life I explored many other options and decided that for me Earth Religions offer something more natural, you dont have to kill your neighbor for haveing different beliefs, you are not going to be punished on earth or ever in death for eternety, no guilt, no shame.

It is not that I can do anything I want now, I have more respons-
ability for myself unlike before when all I had to do was go to confession and be forgiven of my sins and it only cost me a few hail Marys.

My religion (Belief) does not even mention ill intent towards anything or anyone it is believed that it would be returned to you three fold.

I feel complete moreso then before.

God is Everything and Everyone.