Logic and Faith: Oil and Water?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by THUNK

Perhaps you derive comfort from your 'inner knowings' that help you get through life with a smile.

Religious types are to my mind 'seekers of comfort'.

Is your enlightened 'inner knowing' bright enough to direct you to spend your spare time in selfless PRACTICAL help of others doing hard work (not easy cop - out praying), BUT HARD GRAFT? God would surely prefer that to hours of adulation?

Does spending the last 25 years saving lives and people's property for a living count?

v/r

Q

[Cerealkiller]

"Religious types are to my mind 'seekers of comfort'."


I had this conversation with an atheist once before, and I think I may even make a thread about it in the comparative religions forum, but I wanted to comment directly on this comment here.

My faith in God does not make me comfortable. It does not make me happier. It does not make me sleep easier. It terrifies me. There is a being in the Universe, which is all-powerful, all-knowing, infinitie, and it is watching me. This is scary. On top of that, I for one cannot except belief in God without a corrolary belief in less benevolent forces. God comes hand in hand with all manner of devils and whatnot. In short, I don't believe in God because it makes me comfortable, but because it is the truest thing I have stumbled upon in my lifetime.

[THUNK]

Originally Posted by Cerealkiller

"Religious types are to my mind 'seekers of comfort'."


I had this conversation with an atheist once before, and I think I may even make a thread about it in the comparative religions forum, but I wanted to comment directly on this comment here.

My faith in God does not make me comfortable. It does not make me happier. It does not make me sleep easier. It terrifies me. There is a being in the Universe, which is all-powerful, all-knowing, infinitie, and it is watching me. This is scary. On top of that, I for one cannot except belief in God without a corrolary belief in less benevolent forces. God comes hand in hand with all manner of devils and whatnot. In short, I don't believe in God because it makes me comfortable, but because it is the truest thing I have stumbled upon in my lifetime.

I consider most religious people to be 'seekers of comfort'.

Just because you say it 'terrifies' you, I suspect on balance you still find that your faith gives your life sense, direction and struture. This 'solidity' in an otherwise mean and complex world must give you comfort and a sense of purpose.

Your religion is the whino's Whisky. Despite the downsides you need it for comfort and structure.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by THUNK

...Your religion is the whino's Whisky. Despite the downsides you need it for comfort and structure.

You've never been a "Wino". Or else you would realize the fallacy of that statement.

v/r

Q

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna

If you don't mind I would have some Vedic thoughts on this topic

# there are the tenets of the scriptures the basis of ones faith
# logic supporting and proving those tenets are beneficial
# logic going against the scriptural conclusions are not beneficial
# such logic is called mental speculation and
# it will destroy ones devotion and faith

## some try to understand God only with logic
## that is not possible
## REASON: God is called ACINTYA - INCONCEIVABLE
## thus He cannot be understood by argument and logic

* What to do?
* the Vedic wisdom say God is easily understood by devotion to Him
* REASON: God reveals Himself to His beloved devotee
* at that time the devotee is fully overwhelmed with love of God
* his faith becomes complete and perfect

CONCLUSION:
** cultivation of devotion to God is better than mental speculation
** logic that helps to understand the scriptures and that is supported by scriptures is helpful to some degree
** but ultimately it is by devotion that one can understand the inconceivable Supreme Lord.

[InLove]

Hello, and Peace To All Here--

So many great thoughts in here--I should have been keeping up with this thread a little closer. (By the way, Twinlove--I guess I missed your post somehow. If you are still around, I hope you will accept my belated welcome? Beautiful avatar, by the way!)

What stands out to me in reading back over the replies is how many individuals from different backgrounds and faiths embrace this idea. (That may sound a little clumsy, but I did not want to say "belief systems" or "religions").

This really struck me when I read the last post by nitae--it does seem as if the Vedic thoughts are expressing what I was trying to express in my original statement:

To me, faith makes perfect sense. It is the ultimate Logic of Love. I see the spiritual aspect as being just as real (if not more so) than the physical. I also see the two in connection.

It brings me a smile to discover how surprised I am by all of this. .

InPeace,
InLove

[Twinlove]

InLove,

Of course a late welcome is always accepted. After reading back through this thread myself, I have given this subject some deeper thought.

Consider this....In your instance which came first? Love or Faith...hopefully I can put this down in words that make some sense.

In my case I must have done something right to be blessed with the love that I have been gifted. Was this because of my faith? Since my recieving of this love my faith has increased which in return increases my love. There never seems to be a topping off. I can say that with me, my faith is defined by love and my love is defined by faith. Are they one and the same? Well they both continually increase at the same time and if we can substitute the word logic with the word truth(inner truth, true) which is based on love and faith, then I would say love and faith will never decrease because my heart knows the truth which completes me.

hmmmm...well I did my best to put it in words...

[InLove]

Hello, Twinlove, Peace--

I think you have captured it well. That is how you set it free . The indwelling of the Spirit--the logic of Love....

InPeace,
InLove

[Nitai]

Hare Krishna
Nice realizations and questions
# In your instance which came first? Love or Faith...
* In us first some faith have to be there to start spiritual life
* when we become purified from material attachments we attain love of God
* that love of God is the gift of God eternally residing in Him as we say God is love. And He certainly wants to distribute it to the sincere souls

# In my case I must have done something right to be blessed with the love that I have been gifted. Was this because of my faith?
* Vedas mention the experience of love in beginning stage of spiritual life. It is called abhasa or shadow. So, if you feel some love already now just imagine how much greater will be later. Actually, it is said that love of God is unlimited it is always increasing.

# my faith is defined by love and my love is defined by faith. Are they one and the same?
* they look like same but are different as well. Just like there is one fire which consists of heat and light.

# I would say love and faith will never decrease because my heart knows the truth which completes me.
* there are two dangers that can object the further development of love and even make you feel that the love you attained till now is decreasing.
* the two dangers are 1. to make offenses to the devotees of the Lord and to make offenses to the Lord Himself.
* I would say we should not make offenses to the people of any religion and not to make offenses to the worshipable Deities of people in any religion whether we accept The or not.

What do you think about all this?