Living in communities

[Virtual_Cliff]

A group of us in the West of England are just forming a co-housing project. I was wondering if anyone on this forum has any experience of living in a community. This might be a monastry or ashram, or a commune, or some other kind of community.

I would particularly like to get advice on how to live peacefully together, how to deal with disagreements, how to keep the ideals fresh etc. If you have any solid practical advice I would be grateful if you would share it.

Thanks.
Cliff

[17th Angel]

I rememeber as a kid seeing a video about drugs in school... And it was like 60 or so hippies living in an abandoned farm interesting watching how they got around debates and such, but being hippies... They never resorted to fights... shame..... I personally would take a shotgun... So if things get out of hand... people start to whine and complain about things... show them Mr. boomstick... You will gain much fortune and favour... that tip's on the house.

[wil]

I worked with a group that was interested once....it didn't pan out, they didn't have the werewithal to complete.

I've visited a number of the communities and each deals with isssues in a slightly different manner. I liked one called modified fishbowl. When some sort of group decision has to be made, chairs are put in a circle with two chairs in the middle, anyone who chooses to speak enters the circle and sits at one of the chairs and begins their statement/thoughts, when someone else has something they move to the adjacent chair, as one person finishes the other starts. Their was a time constraint, and no one was allowed to simply get up and agree, or restate something already brought up, it was all about continually bringing new information to the table. During the course concensus resolutions were slowly made. They planned weekly dinners around this decision making process to allow plenty of time to iron things out...those on the circle did not speak, no questions, and not to each other...only those in the center spoke.

Intentional Community and Co-Housing interests me greatly, a lot of stuff is out there on the web, and recommend you guys get the magazines to start being cohehisve in understanding.

Lastly my recomendation is the coummunity house or space be built first. I've seen a couple of communities where after years this has still not happened...and it negatively affects the community. By pooling cash for the community effort first it gets done, it creates a commitment, and community.

Good luck on this, I love the concept.

[InLove]

Hi Virtual Cliff

I live in what is called a "mutual ownership corporation". It is set up as a non-profit organization, which keeps the cost of living down. It really seems more like renting than ownership, but we all vote on how it is run, and if we move, we can sell improvements we have made and retain that. There is a board of directors which is voted upon each year, and everyone has a chance to express their opinions and offer ideas at annual or special meetings. The community is open to anyone, but residents have first choice of transfers. Many people who grew up here, like myself, tend to live here as adults, so a lot of us know each other well.

It has its advantages and disadvantages, but if one's personality is suited for this sort of thing, it works out well.

InPeace,
InLove

[Virtual_Cliff]

Thanks for your comments so far. Wil, I like your idea about starting with the communal house. I thought if we had a place where we could cook and eat and keep warm and dry, we could get the rest put together around it.

Also the circle time idea is one I have used before. Sometimes people have a token (eg a brick... anything) that gives them the right to speak when they hold it. The principle is the same. And the communal meal is important.

I'd be grateful for any other thoughts...

[wil]

I started on some design for the community house, big kitchen, big great room/dining hall, library, game room, computer room, kids play room, and a wing with 10 sleeping rooms. All of the designated rooms would have been utilized by initial members while their homes were being built. (so while the game room would currently have Wil's family in it...it was built and eventually be its own thing, but would allow wil to not be paying rent or mortgage someplace else and money to be going into the community) All of the homes could have a small eatin kitchen and req'd no extra bedrooms as guests and larger meals would/could be in the community house.

The second building we wanted to build was the woodshop, garden shed and garage for yard tools and mechanican...

Our homes would be bought and sold based on value, so you would be building equity...however when sold the new purchasers would have to agree to the community rules and system...many I've seen have waiting lists to purchase in...

course we never got off the ground....

the difference between fishbowl and heart talks/talking sticks...is the two people opposing views that jump into the chairs....it becomes a pro chair and a con chair until one chair no longer gets filled...

[InLove]

Ours is an old community. Everyone lives in separate houses, but there is a community center for any member's use. There are rules, of course, but they are voted on. We maintain our own yards, but the money that goes back into the community from monthly dues goes toward maintenance for those who need help with that.

There is a common area that used to be a park/playground, but right now it is just a field. Sadly, we have had to put up security fencing because people were coming in from outside and making a mess of the park. Maybe we can rebuild the area.

As in wil's scenario, there is a long waiting list here. And there is equity involved, but it doesn't work exactly the way it does in traditional homeowner situations.

However, our meetings are quite traditional.

Just thought I'd add a little more info.

InPeace,
InLove

[Francis king]

sounds great, virtualcliff...

to keep the ideals fresh- a statement of aims/purpose, set out, on paper, detailing the groups aims/common purpose is a good idea, as ppl know straight off if they agree/disagree/want to get involved...

as well as this, to keep the ideals fresh, regular informal group meets is a good idea... keeping to a timetable is also a good idea- say, a group meet every month, or two months, reviewing the aims and objectives yearly, etc,

rules arent everyones cup of tea, but u'll need some- best to set out what the group will tolerate and wont straight off, its easier then doing it after the sheet has hit the fan...

giving everyone a vote is okay when u have less than 10 ppl, but more than that and ur asking for trouble- a board of trustees, containing a chair, a treasurer, a co-signee, a secretary, etc, should make the day to day running easier, for big things- all members get a vote...

...opportunity for ppl to raise issues is a good idea- having a box for ppl to put ideas/worries in, etc... or having a specific named person to deal with, is also a good idea...

apart from that, all those ideas which help society to govern itself better- juries, and mock courts, for serious breaches, giving ppl a chance to state their cases, etc, is a good idea... oh! and make sure whatever u do doesn't breach any laws or statutory requirements, as it leaves u open to prosecution...

[I, Brian]

Sounds like a great project - would love something like that myself.

I think from my online experience is that a key problem is management and delegating decision making. On the internet the way seems to be "benevolent dictator", meaning that if a person disagrees that this is the case, they can very easily move onto other online communities where a better alignment of opinions can work.

But in the real world - I guess the ideal is one of decisions "by committee", but the big danger is of "committeeism" taking over - ie, the rules lawyers determining by rule every action, rather than making decisions by the spirit of the community.

I'm not sure if helpful, but you may want to keep an eye out for existing communes and similar and see how they try to answer the very questions you ask. I'm not too far from Findhorn myself, and am looking to get there and be involved with something. If I find out any tips, I'll try and send them over to this thread.

[Virtual_Cliff]

Thanks Brian. I know *of* Findhorn of course but not that much *about* it. Thanks everyone for all your advice and support. I'll let you know how it goes.

Our intention at the present is to set it up as a housing co-op, with all the property being owned by the co-op and rented to the residents. Residents and others can also invest money in the co-op and receive a return on their investments. Assuming we can raise the capital, this means we can be open to people who don't have capital, as well as those who do.

We hope to have made a start on the ground by the end of 2009.

[17th Angel]

Doesn't it bother you that it's not -your- land or -your- estate? You pretty much own nothing..... That would bother me.... ;\

[InLove]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Doesn't it bother you that it's not -your- land or -your- estate? You pretty much own nothing..... That would bother me.... ;\

There are different kinds of assets, and different ways of viewing them. What one gains in a communal atmosphere can be considered an asset.

There are some material advantages, as well, although they may not be immediately apparent. For example, there is money to be saved in an efficient set-up. It isn't so much invested in real estate, but in other areas.

Another advantage is that one is not alone in maintaining the property. I'm not knocking traditional home ownership at all--I'm just saying that there are lots of headaches that go along with sole ownership.

And, sadly, it isn't like the government and/or the voters (at least here) can't come in and decide to build a highway or a football stadium right over your property, and if you don't agree to the price they want to give you, then they can do it for free. Happens all the time. By the way, the community where I live has been declared an historical monument, so it would be very difficult for the above scenario to happen here. Not saying it couldn't, but it would take quite a bit of doing.

InPeace,
InLove

[17th Angel]

Not meaning offense you know that... Just trying to see how people handle that... I have this 'thing' for security... Like I have my houses and both paid off... and that soothes me. Like If I didn't own any property I be constantly worried lol I am freaking nuts. I am starting to listen to what I type about what I believe.... Anyway.. It's a kinda "the beach" thing... You know the movie the beach? Where they have leaders and rules and roles and so on... I guess in a way it be kinda funky....

[dauer]

Cliff,

That Jewish retreat center I lived and worked at for three months had a year round community. It just grew during the summer to accomodate all of the extra guests.

Two things:

Once a week we would gather in a circle, like has been mentioned. We'd go over any issues, and then each individual would get the floor for a certain amount of time. No questions and answers, no agenda, just time to talk. What we found as the summer passed was that it was better to break into random groups of three or four so that each individual had more time to share, and also so that it was a little more intimate. And there also seemed to be a strong push away from the no-agenda, uninterrupted floor format towards more co-counseling.

In addition to this, each person who was there for the summer would meet once a week with one of the people who was running things that summer specifically for co-counseling and discussing any other issues we were having about the environment or anything else. I don't think it's necessary that this be osmething reserved for some type of leader in the community, but I found the one-on-one time in addition to the circle time was very helpful. Also the eating together, as was mentioned, very good to do that at least once in a while. We were doing it every day for every meal there, but that of course doesn't work in all situations. In our case we also had communal prayer as well as meditation daily, as well as other once weekly rituals around the sabbath, like the communal mikveh (separated by sex.) I'm not sure whether this is a spiritual or secular housing setup you're putting together, but I also found that those were very meaningful and helped to strengthen the community.

One thing we did that could be applicable to other situations, at different times of day: in the middle of the day, I think before lunch, those who were interested, both the residents and the hired staff, would gather for a short guided meditation, something very simple like watching one's breath for example. Those moments were really sweet.

And one final thing, it was a retreat center and we were there almost 24/7 staffing the place and soaking it in, but we did get a day off, and generally most people gravitated towards getting off on the same day, unless their work schedule wouldn't allow it, because being able to spend time together outside of the environment also proved rewarding. So rather than trying to get away from each other, we'd go into town together in small groups. We'd also sometimes rent movies that were entirely inappropriate for the setting, like EvilDead, and that was great too, because being all flowers and rainbows all the time, well, I needed a break from it to get in touch with other part of me. Oh! another important thing. We found the feminine to be dominant in the way of things, and by that I mean feelings, empathy, etc. And there was very little room for masculine ways of expressing things, grunting, hunting, lol. Because of this we ended up, without realizing what we were doing, creating room for it, like a very aggressive -- but friendly -- game of ultimate frisbee each shabbos afternoon. Another thing that went on there, that I think was important, was language. It was done primarily for the guests, and we'd joke about it sometimes together, but it really did change the atmosphere to to talk about creating a space or intentionality or contracting oneself to make make room for the people around you. One final thing, because otherwise I'll just keep speaking.

When coming into a meeting of any sort, opening with song always helped to bring focus and center, and to bring everyone's hearts together. Usually we would sing a nigun which is a wordless melody, but I think any repetitive song that everyone knows or that's easy to pick up would probably work just as well.

Good luck with your project. It sounds fantastic.

Dauer

[chakraman]

i love the idea of community living, i think its moved on a bit since the sixties. i lived on a kibbutz for a while when i was younger which was a great experience.
nowadays with estates and schools getting more dangerous i think communal living offers a great place for children to grow and play in safety. i think its good to share responsibilities and live amongst many people as opposed to the closed entity of the family home. i'm looking into building an all year round yurt, back to nature man v
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj if i was putting one together i,d make sure it was away from polution, preferably up on hill with a spring and near a steiner school or similar unless home educating,,,,