Let's talk Terrorists.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by earl

OK-1 last parting thought on this topic. I'm no Catholic, but the recently deceased pope, John Paul II, was widely revered by Catholic & non-Catholic alike for 1 principal reason: he was a tireless world ambassador for universal love & peace. The current Dalai Lama has long been universally revered by Buddhist & non-buddhist for 1 principal reason: he's been a tireless world ambassador for universal compassion & peace. World religious leaders, do we see a theme here? May we all awaken to Love & Peace, Earl

I hear you, earl.

peace to you and this troubled world,
lunamoth

[Jack Halyard]

I'd like to add a "hear hear" to Earl's post also. In my humble opinion, these terrorists are not "true Muslims" anymore than members of the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremist groups are "true Christians." Whatever one's faith, I believe this old world would be a better place if we all loved God with all our hearts and our neighbors as ourselves.

[Postmaster]

Whatever one's faith, I believe this old world would be a better place if we all loved God with all our hearts and our neighbors as ourselves.

Doesn't that sound more like Christianity? Like love your enemies and forgiveness. Islam can't tolerate other faiths in fact the Islamic empire started off by Mohammad and his army of followers killing and converting pagans originally. And his face was so sacred that in all pictures they used a head scarf to cover his face, he might have done it in life too. Spainish attacks were due to Spain being an ex Islamic country and also because they totally hate what the west stands for, they try to destroy it because they see it as a threat to Islam.. Democracy and Islam are like chalk and cheese. Whereas Christianity and democracy fit like a glove both products of the Greeks

[I, Brian]

No, Islam has some great peace teachings too - by looking at past history you're seeing politics in action as much as anything. Before the end of the 11th century Islam reached a general Golden Age of peace, prosperity, and learning. But the events of the Crusade - an effectively political campaign intended to target outisde third-parties to distract from internal dissent within European politics - helped shatter that in relation to its place in the outside world.

Extremists are extremists, and inhabit the political spectrum.

[Postmaster]

No, Islam has some great peace teachings too - by looking at past history you're seeing politics in action as much as anything. Before the end of the 11th century Islam reached a general Golden Age of peace, prosperity, and learning. But the events of the Crusade - an effectively political campaign intended to target outisde third-parties to distract from internal dissent within European politics - helped shatter that in relation to its place in the outside world.

Extremists are extremists, and inhabit the political spectrum.

What trigged off the Crusades which never really ended up victoriously was to get back the Christian holy lands from muslim domination, which was called for by the vatican. At this point in history the Muslims used to harbour the Jews It was pretty discusting how the Crusaders were going round killing, raping and looting in the name of Christ, I suppose this can be a comparison to the Muslim attacks on the west..

[I, Brian]

While the Crusades were openly a mission to "reclaim" Jerusalem from Islam, it also served a very useful purpose for the Papacy for a very immediate problem, and this was the constant fighting and feuding among the royal houses of Europe. It's like the old wisdom - that the best way to bring people together is to give them a common enemy. The issue of "retaking" Jerusalem served a good distraction, and Islam was suitably demonised for the purpose of playing the role of an enemy (with lands) to try and unite a European nobility (who needed more lands).

Also, on the issue of terrorism in general - you may wish to reference this thread:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ead.php?t=3341

It wasn't an act of terrorism by normal definitions, though it resulted in the calculated deaths of twice as many Muslims men and boys at the hands of a Christian militia, than the entire death toll from 9/11.

Would it be proper to condemn Orthodox Christians, though?

While terrorism has, by its very nature, a certain degree of shock and awe about it, when you put it into context, the event in London, although high profile, in terms of world atrocities ranks pretty low.

Also, it may serve as a general point to help raise general awareness about the Lord's Army in African Uganda, whichrarely makes the Western news media:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

It is estimated that around 20,000 children have been kidnapped by the group since 1987 for use as soldiers and sex slaves. The group performs abductions primarily from the Acholi people, who have borne the brunt of the 18-year LRA campaign. The LRA has also operated across the porous border region with Southern Sudan, subjecting Sudanese civilians to its horrific tactics.

Up to 12,000 people have been killed in the violence, with many more dying from disease and malnutrition as a direct result of the conflict. Nearly two million civilians have been forced to flee their homes, living in internally displaced people (IDP) camps and within the safety of larger settlements, sleeping on street corners and in other public spaces. Despite these forced migrations, the plight of the Acholi people has received little media coverage in the developed world. Not until April 2004 did the UN Security Council issue a formal condemnation.

No one is excusing the terrorist attacks in London - but I think it is definitely worth putting the issue of "Muslim" terrorism into perspective with a direct comparison to Christianity - namely because the entire phrase "Christian Terrorism" is entirely absent from media use, despite that thousands have died at the hands of Christian groups who claim spiritual justification and forgiveness in their acts.

There's a lot about what humanity is capable of that makes you want to vomit - but I should be careful of sweeping generalisations of any specific religion on the basis of a minority of extremists claiming ownership of it.

The relative horror of political abuse of religion, I guess.

[Postmaster]

Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..... Where would we be with out generalisation? Its part of human nature that can be very value at times as to saving ones life, then we say there's no such thing.

All I know is that there are the Animals and there are the humans and that's for me to acknowledge and for God to Judge.

Also really we can't say that Islam does not need reformation and we can't say that there is nothing in the Islamic faith that gives a little justification to some extreme acts.

Either way people of all backgrounds have the ability to to sin, this I know is truth..