Lamenting Present Day Atheism

[ardenz]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

(I am not a Christian, by the way.)

...but were you.?

Yes I agree, much of the Atheism I come across is very angry and anti-Christian - mainly from online forums. Richard Dawkins and Hitchins (?) have been doing the circuit. I believe it is a reaction to a particular aspect of Evangelical Christianity, which is quite unique to the US.

A

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Pseudo and Tao,

You have raised several issues. Let me address one here. It has been said that a lot of atheists in America are not truly atheists, they are merely people who are angry at Christians and the way Christians portray their religion to others. Is that an idea that agrees with you? (I am not a Christian, by the way.)

I could believe that many atheists are luke-warm Christians that find what the more extreme Christian groups to be saying and doing deeply upsetting and troubling. Yes.

TE

[wil]

Originally Posted by ardenz

I believe it is a reaction to a particular aspect of Evangelical Christianity, which is quite unique to the US.

Are you saying this isn't worldwide...you know us Americans (first we think American only applies to the US and not to someone from Canada, Mexico, Central or South America...) and then we think the rest of the world is much like us, just poorer. Hence the reasons those Evangelicals are always raising funds for the starving overseas...funny how the starving here are often the ones that send money...so confusing it all is....

[ardenz]

Originally Posted by wil

Are you saying this isn't worldwide...you know us Americans (first we think American only applies to the US and not to someone from Canada, Mexico, Central or South America...) and then we think the rest of the world is much like us, just poorer. Hence the reasons those Evangelicals are always raising funds for the starving overseas...funny how the starving here are often the ones that send money...so confusing it all is....

The modern version of Evangelicism originated in the US, I believe, though it has spread worldwide. I think most internet activity is generated from the US (correct me if I'm wrong) and some of the athiests I've come across seem to be from there. Perhaps there are British also. Atheism does seem to mainly reacting against Christianity. I believe anti-Catholics are different, they rant about the Pope and feel guilty about everything (I was one).

[pseudonymous]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Pseudo and Tao,

It has been said that a lot of atheists in America are not truly atheists, they are merely people who are angry at Christians and the way Christians portray their religion to others. Is that an idea that agrees with you? (I am not a Christian, by the way.)

i can't speak for others, of course, but for me becoming an atheist was a process of reason and logic. i think most atheists are simply people without the belief in deity, but there is likely a minority of them that are in the camp simply for the religion bashing part of it - again, i find an atheist using an e-mail address, or forum personal name, rife with "evil" symbology daft at best...and there are a lot of them - i always suspected most as being teens just needing an outlet for their angst

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by wil

Are you saying this isn't worldwide...you know us Americans (first we think American only applies to the US and not to someone from Canada, Mexico, Central or South America...) and then we think the rest of the world is much like us, just poorer. Hence the reasons those Evangelicals are always raising funds for the starving overseas...funny how the starving here are often the ones that send money...so confusing it all is....

Given the track record of several high profile evangelical fund-raisers that have been 'outed' it would be an extremely interesting exercise to see what percentage of funds raised ever actually reaches anyone in need.

TE

[Dondi]

pseudonymous,

I must say, as a Christian, I do find your demeaner quite refreshing. I've been to plenty of forum site where the kind of thing you've describe is rampant, on both sides.

But the thing about Brian's site is that I feel much freer speaking to athiests/agnostics where I'm not always bashed for what I believe in. In fact, I've been able to better understand where people are coming from and why they believe or don't believe.

I get what mean by community. There's really no offical "denomination" where athiests can go and not worship God with others of your same persuasion. There is something about being in a group of like-minded people working for a common goal in helping our fellow man. And there is fellowship where we can share experiences together.

Anyway, welcome back.

Regards,

Dondi

[Nick the Pilot]

Ardenz,

Yes, I was born a Christian, but one day I found out Christianity is not my "cup of tea". (I have since found something that works for me elsewhere.)

Tao, You said,

"I could believe that many atheists are luke-warm Christians that find what the more extreme Christian groups to be saying and doing deeply upsetting and troubling. Yes."

--> Wow. (I agree.) It just makes you wonder what it would have been like, if Christians had not been so "deeply upsetting and troubling".

Will,

It would be fascinating to find out how wide-spread this phenomenon is.

Pseudo, You said,

"...i think most atheists are simply people without the belief in deity...."

--> The funny thing, I also do not believe in an Almighty God ... and I am not an atheist. Then there are those people who might have believed in an Almighty God, but were pushed away by the Biblical depiction of an Almighty God. And, you are right, some people just use the title of atheist to do negative things.

[wil]

Here here! Raise your glass in hopes of more G-dly Atheists, and a church for them to assemble! After all a real atheist couldn't deride or blaspheme something they don't believe in!

While were at it lets get some more G-dly evangelicals, heck more Christlike Christians...and more G-dly Muslims, and....and....and...

What the world needs now, is love, sweet love!

But seriously we all know those TV preachers needed the cars and the mansions and G-d told them they needed another hundred million....they said so, they had tears in their eyes and grandma sent a check.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by wil

But seriously we all know those TV preachers needed the cars and the mansions and G-d told them they needed another hundred million....they said so, they had tears in their eyes and grandma sent a check.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by wil

But seriously we all know those TV preachers needed the cars and the mansions and G-d told them they needed another hundred million....they said so, they had tears in their eyes and grandma sent a check.

Sadly, grandma had tears in her eyes, too....after she found out how much she got swindled.

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by pseudonymous

The truth is that there is no atheist community.

I'm a member of the Fellowship of Reason, an ethical community that caters to atheists. I'll admit, we are a tiny minority among atheists, and yet we do exist.

One of the primary reasons for a person to adopt a religion or faith is because of the support of the community embracing that faith. What is the atheist community offering humanity? The truth?

We offer opportunities for personal growth and fellowship.

Does anyone consider the pissing contests that sully these online forum's space as teaching?

No, which is why I don't personally waste my time with such things. It's no wonder that atheists like me don't register on your personal radar screen. That doesn't mean we don't exist, though.

I lament that the atheist community cannot come to terms with its own beliefs.

Didn't you just say that there is no atheist community? You are correct. There is no "atheist" community just as there is no "theist" community. There is no monolithic block of atheists.

What is it that atheists shall leave behind for humanity? Why are there no cited atheist holy people?

There are heroes cited by atheists. I'll cite one right now -- Madame Curie.

Shall atheism go down in history as the unholy, prejudiced, cold & uncaring spectacle that it has been reduced to these last few decades? If we truly want to help others, then try teaching by example.

I agree with you, but I think the perception of atheists is not in line with the reality. Online discussion boards are a poor window into reality.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[Vajradhara]

Namaste all..

just an observation if i may..

isn't it just a *tad* of cultural eliteism to suggest that atheism, per se, arose due to a rejection of Christianity? that would seem to suggest that Buddha Dharma arose due to the Christian paradigm.. which i can assure you is not the case

as for what a person contributes to the world.. i think that has less to do with ones religious beliefs that it may seem and much more to do with their actions than one would hope.

metta,

~v

[Impqueen]

Before I start I'll just say I have no problem at all with atheism as a belief, but have noticed something about those atheists I have come across in my personal life and those I've heard talking on the radio. Atheists often talked as anti-monotheists, they don't address polytheism as an option at all. More specifically they 'disprove' Christianity (and sometimes the other Abrahamic faiths too) and stop there. It's a more complex version of something a kid once said to me; the bible contradicts itself, therefore the bible is false, therefore God doesn't exist.

Also there seems to be quite alot of scorn for anyone 'dumb' enough to believe there's anything spiritual about the world at all. Those of us who believe only do so because we are poor weak minded souls who need faith to stop the world being so scary.

I'm not suggesting all atheists are like this, especially not those who are atheist within a spiritual framework of some kind. As with any belief, there are those who have carefully thought and felt it through and there are those who take it on as a cheap mantle which allows them to look down on others.

[Nick the Pilot]

Impqueen,

You said,

"Atheists often talked as anti-monotheists, they don't address polytheism as an option at all."

--> That is a fascinating observation to me, as I am a pantheist.

"It's a more complex version of something a kid once said to me; the bible contradicts itself, therefore the bible is false, therefore God doesn't exist."

--> Perhaps the kid would have done well with some study in the field of logic. His conclusion is/was invalid.

"Also there seems to be quite alot of scorn for anyone 'dumb' enough to believe there's anything spiritual about the world at all."

--> I think this is because of the horrible religious polarization in the world today. This is the exact reason I started this thread in the first place. Yes, the religious world is horribly ploarized, but there is room for beliefs between the two extremes.

"Those of us who believe only do so because we are poor weak minded souls who need faith to stop the world being so scary."

--> Perhaps we can learn to develop more compassion towards such people.

"As with any belief, there are those who have carefully thought and felt it through and there are those who take it on as a cheap mantle which allows them to look down on others."

--> You are correct, we need to divide them into two groups. The way we should handle the first group is quite different than the way we should handle the second group.