Kuffar or Infidels?

[KarimK]

Oh God, you told your husband kos emak? LMAO, what did you tell him when he asked who taught you this expression?

I should have warned you, seriously, this particular expression is to use only in veeeeery delicate situations. Men don't like to hear someone tell them something about their mother's c*nt. As wil says, it IS tricky.

I never thought you'd actually tell him kos emak, LOL.

as far as i remember, he always spoke perfect american - of course in europe and even in the UK, that just confirms that israel is really just an outpost of america in the middle east. which it isn't, despite it being convenient for many people to think so.

I'm going to hit the next person who does the "What's the 51st American state" joke to me again. Although it's true that whenever I go to Jerusalem (when I can ), I hear more and more English-speaking people.

With an American accent.

As for Netnayahu, I was under the impression that he used to be part of the "eeeee" band. oh well.

hur, hur, hur. funny, we always blame the greeks. and the persians. and the romans. personally, i always find it somewhat amusing that the pashtouns, the tribe that produced the taleban, have a folk song which goes "there's a boy across the river with a bottom like a peach but, alas! i cannot swim!"

LOL. reminds me of Abu Nawas' poems where he really wants to ride that youthful, vigorous stag. Oh, my. Abu Nawas was an Arab.

and that is pretty much all the justification it needs from my side of things.

True. But on my side of the Wall, things are pretty different. The fact that it prevents suicide bombings does not justify it. In any way, to me. The Palestinian people are living in a cage. Literally, it's an open-sky prison. I'll spare you the tedious *blahblahblah apartheid blahblahblah ghetto* talk. I don't think we can compare what is happening here with South Africa. But the wall is separating families, people, villages. It is a hindrance. Not a mild hindrance. It swallowed up a whole part of my horizon.

And if there's one thing I don't like, it's having one part of my very beautiful bethlehemite (hm?) horizon disappearing. The first few months, I'd feel completely asphyxiated whenever I saw the wall. And then, it started getting INTO town (a whole weird maze thing was built so that Rachel's Tomb could be on the Israeli side of the wall... which means that parts of the wall are now really inside Bethlhem). From some high points, you can see the wall, it looks like a huge grey snake running around. I don't like snakes. Especially huge, scary ones.

I don't like feeling I'm being treated like an animal. I've been to Berlin. I have no idea how these two walls could ever be compared. Ours is bigger. A lot. And it's on the scale of a whole country. (okay, it's a small country(ies) we have there, but still).

I realize this is just the talk of a spoiled kid who doesn't like seeing an ugly wall every day (because, seriously, who am I to complain? I don't live in a refugee camp or in the huge slum that is the Gaza strip. I'm well off. I have the internet. I'm going to study outside next year. No dire straits for me.) but you really have to imagine - and it's really harder than you think - the humiliation that is this wall. We're being caged. And you know what pisses me the most?

This wall constantly reminds me of how animal I - we - are. I got used to it. Now, I can walk next to the wall and not feel shadowed or scared or not have a claustrophobic attack anymore. Because it's normal. It's like a dog in a cage. I honestly think that I'd feel lost if suddenly the wall disappeared.

I can't argue with you on the effectiveness (I don't like saying that but whatever) of the wall. But it'll never ever ever be justified to me.

The wall is blatantly disregarding tons of basic human rights. and the worst thing is the Israeli government is doing it so ... carelessly, you know? It's like, they can afford to do, they will do it, and they really don't care what others think.

Oh! nice detail! Whenever you come to Israel just GO check out the Bethlehem check-point. I honestly think the Ministry of Tourism has some sort of sick sense of humor.
A couple of months (or more? I still feel like the wall was built a year ago) ago, they put on this HUUUUUGE poster with the caption (in English, Hebrew and Arabic) : "Peace be with you". Which translates as : "God help you, you're going into this madhouse".

THEN. They put up all around the check-point these posters - pictures of Bethlehem and Jerusalem with this HILARIOUS caption : "Jerusalem - Bethlechem - Love" or something like that. I'm not sure if it said "Love" or "Peace" but it was something in that area. (I haven't been there for a long time).

I especially like the way they wrote Bethlehem. It's full of understood niceties

BB, I really hope one day you can cross a check-point like the one we have in Bethlehem. I think you'll change your mind once you've done that.

I'll be happy to guide you through it

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

Cursing is such a tricky thing...say the wrong thing and it comes out completely weird or unintentionally beyond cursing and insultingly rude...

Bless him, he saw the humour in it eventually but was just so shocked I had used such an awful word in his own language. Me naughty.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by KarimK

I never thought you'd actually tell him kos emak, LOL.

Oh so it's ok for him to say it to me every time we have a row? At least I said it as a joke, he means usually means it.

I told him it is a young Palestinian man I talk with on a religious site, he is cool with it but perhaps hopes you won't teach me any more LOL

Bet he never calls me it again LMAO

Originally Posted by KarimK

But the wall is separating families, people, villages. It is a hindrance. Not a mild hindrance. It swallowed up a whole part of my horizon.

I watched a news report recently about a poor chap whose steps to his home are actually on the border, so he has to have a special pass to enter his own home. He can stand on the steps but must go every 3 months to get permission to go from his steps into his home. How can anyone be expected to live like this?

Originally Posted by KarimK

I don't like feeling I'm being treated like an animal. I've been to Berlin. I have no idea how these two walls could ever be compared. Ours is bigger. A lot. And it's on the scale of a whole country. (okay, it's a small country(ies) we have there, but still).

Isn't the comparison with the Berlin wall the separation of people? The Berlin wall seperated families for so many years.

[KarimK]

Oh so it's ok for him to say it to me every time we have a row?

you know I don't think that

I watched a news report recently about a poor chap whose steps to his home are actually on the border, so he has to have a special pass to enter his own home. He can stand on the steps but must go every 3 months to get permission to go from his steps into his home. How can anyone be expected to live like this?

lots of stories like that. it's really absurd, at times, I honestly feel I'm living in some sort of warped reality. Sometimes, things get so weird, so outlandish that I really wonder if it's real or not.

I know people who wake up every day, open the window, and have the wall, there, right in front of them. they can touch it and all. beautiful view, you gotta say.

Isn't the comparison with the Berlin wall the separation of people? The Berlin wall seperated families for so many years.

Yesssssssssssssssss, but ours is sooooooooo huge! (this really needs a puppy-eyes smiley)

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by KarimK

I know people who wake up every day, open the window, and have the wall, there, right in front of them. they can touch it and all. beautiful view, you gotta say.

Isn't that where the art and poetry came from on the Berlin wall? I spent hours reading the poetry, it was so heart wrenching. It was a peaceful protest, an expression of people's frustration on both sides of the wall.

Something that changed my life and view of life (you may not know I was born and largely raised in Germany) was the "atmosphere" at the wall and in the death camps, it is actually tangible, there is a weight in the air. People will think I am even more crazy than usual but I hope you will know what I mean with your experience of a wall.

Originally Posted by KarimK

Yesssssssssssssssss, but ours is sooooooooo huge! (this really needs a puppy-eyes smiley)

Oh that is just so 'male' of you, everything has to come down to size ..... "mine's bigger than yours" LOL A cage is a cage no matter how big or small and you know what they say "it's not the size that counts but what you do with it". So get your paint brushes out and start writing poetry, clearly there is enough space.

(I know I shouldn't laugh but if we didn't laugh we would cry).

[KarimK]

Yes I read a discussion somewhere on the forum about the Nazis and how the Jews lied and stuff and you said your dad was a specialist about WWII Germany.

I did feel that atmosphere in Berlin. Especially in Saxenhausen, the concentration camp in the suburbs of Berlin. It felt so wrong.

Well. This is true about art. Definitely. Although I wouldn't say poetry. The people who write on the wall (usually foreigners who think they're saving the world) write really shitty stuff like : "to exist is to resist!". Which is a fine statement, but after a while, it really gets on your nerves.

The drawings on the other hand... Some of them are really beautiful. Some guy drew on several parts of the wall a huge window or a hole that gave on a beautiful landscape - seaside or a green field. It's really beautiful. Also, someone drew the shadow of a little girl holding helium balloons and going up up up.



I think it's absolutely amazing, this picture. The little girl could just very well be the blue-veiled woman.


Also, this, which I find really great Face2Face Project

Oh that is just so 'male' of you, everything has to come down to size .....

I was afraid someone would notice that. But I don't care. Mine is bigger than yours (the walls, I mean ) and that's that.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Something that changed my life and view of life (you may not know I was born and largely raised in Germany) was the "atmosphere" at the wall and in the death camps, it is actually tangible, there is a weight in the air.

Some years ago I was at Bergen-Belsen and what you say is, unfortunately right. Is it because we know what happened there or is there more? Why is nothing growing there? Why are there no birds to be heard?

The other "tangible" atmosphere I have experienced was in the crypt at Assisi. But that was a good, tingling, feeling.

s.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Some years ago I was at Bergen-Belsen and what you say is, unfortunately right. Is it because we know what happened there or is there more? Why is nothing growing there? Why are there no birds to be heard?

I am so pleased someone else knows what I mean, I was told about the birds and trees but didn't really believe it until I saw it. I remember the celebrations when the wall came down and the world sighed with relief and we all thought it would never happen again. Perhaps, sadly, mankind is slower at learning than we thought.

[wil]

Originally Posted by KarimK

I'll be happy to guide you through it

I so look forward to seeing more of the world...and your part of the world is definitely on the list...I know the offer wasn't to me, but I hope to take you up on it someday...

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by wil

I so look forward to seeing more of the world...and your part of the world is definitely on the list...I know the offer wasn't to me, but I hope to take you up on it someday...

You and your family would also receive a warm welcome in Egypt Wil, if you are in the Middle East. We don't have any big walls but we have a tomb or two worth talking about. The offer is always there if you ever make it our way.

[Snoopy]

Maybe a CR World Tour by minibus, on foot, train, plane, car and kayak (that's for Northern England).

BBC NEWS | UK | PM to see damage caused by floods

s.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Maybe a CR World Tour by minibus, on foot, train, plane, car and kayak (that's for Northern England).

BBC NEWS | UK | PM to see damage caused by floods

s.

Oh have you got an allergy to camels? lol

[wil]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

You and your family would also receive a warm welcome in Egypt Wil, if you are in the Middle East. We don't have any big walls but we have a tomb or two worth talking about. The offer is always there if you ever make it our way.

Are you kiddin me?? Cairo, Sphinx, Pyramids, Nile...Are you ever on my list!!!

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Maybe a CR World Tour by minibus, on foot, train, plane, car and kayak (that's for Northern England).

EXACTLY, I live 30 miles from Washington DC, if one ever wants to see the US congress inaction, this is the place to come because they are often inactive...Smithsonian Museums are free and you could spend a year if you took 20 seconds looking at each exhibit...the kayak will be on the rack at the end of the road and you can jump in and paddle around the creek...If anyone doesn't PM me to tell me they are in town...

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Oh have you got an allergy to camels? lol

Strange you should say that actually. No I don't; but they have to me.

s.

[Snoopy]

I've just bought a book called 501 Must-Visit Destinations and yes, I think I may have to go on a world tour.

s.