JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

[greymare]

is that all you got mee?????

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

How do you know that its text wasnt altered by weed/daytura etc and the "visions" were halucinations??????

because it comes true .

Here is some info on the significance of the 1914 date .
taken from the book ...WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY TEACH


1914—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [“the times of the Gentiles,” King James Version] are fulfilled.” Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.

How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.

When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.”—Daniel 4:10-16.

In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of “seven times.” How long a period is that?

Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.


From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years.

For information on Jerusalem’s fall in 607 B.C.E.,

see the article “Chronology” in Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

is that all you got mee?????

plenty more where that came from


matthew 24;45-47

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

Taste and see that Jehovah is good, O YOU people;
Happy is the able-bodied man that takes refuge in him.

psalm34 ;8


i am lapping up lots of good spiritual food from the channel Jesus is feeding ,and it is all from the most high


. and it is a shame to keep it all to myself , so i am giving it out and sharing it .

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

You can cite stuff all you like about this but to me the bible is a reference book for things that have SOME relevence now but majorly directed towards the people of that time and era.Peace Mon. Jahrule.

And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.”DANIEL 12;4

(Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: “Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end.


Its all happening we are right now in the time of the end .

make no mistake about it, the bible is not a dead book just for times past, it is alive ,and the prophecies which were written down years ago are NOW being fullfilled . and there are even future prophecies yet to be fullfilled.

we are living in THRILLING TIMES INDEED

(Daniel 8:26) “And the thing seen concerning the evening and the morning, which has been said, it is true. And you, for your part, keep secret the vision, because it is yet for many days.”


“You may be quite sure that in the last days there are going to be some difficult times.”—2 Tim. 3:1, “The Jerusalem Bible.”



Aside from identifying certain world developments, the Bible foretold that the last days would be marked by a change in human society. The apostle Paul described what people in general would be like. At 2 Timothy 3:1-5, we read: “In the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.” In part, Paul said that people would be

▪ lovers of themselves

▪ lovers of money

▪ disobedient to parents

▪ disloyal

▪ having no natural affection

▪ without self-control

▪ fierce

▪ lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God

▪ having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power

Have people become like that in your community? No doubt they have. There are people everywhere who have bad traits. This shows that God will soon act, for the Bible says: “When the wicked ones sprout as the vegetation and all the practicers of what is hurtful blossom forth, it is that they may be annihilated forever.”—Psalm 92:7.


learning Gods ways leads to everlasting life so now is the time to seek Jehovah and seek meekness

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ... john 17;3



Before [the] statute gives birth to [anything], [before the] day has passed by just like chaff, before there comes upon YOU people the burning anger of Jehovah, before there comes upon YOU the day of Jehovah’s anger, seek Jehovah, all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger. ...zephaniah 2;2-3



thats what a GREAT CROWD from all nations have been doing and they are the ones that will get through the GREAT TRIBULATION revelation 7;9-10

REVELATION 7;14

[greymare]

sorry, tried to post but pressed wrong button.
1. quotes havelittle meaning for me as they have often been misused to prove anything at all.
2. trampling of jerusalem????? seven times????? so from what yu are saying Jerusalem was attacked and the seven times thing adds up mathematically to 1914?????? I am pleased to hear that you have mathematically worked out to an exact date when we are to take this from. Interesting. If this is the case there are a few questions Id like to have answered????
a/ so all the crap that happened in history before 1914 was ....what exactly? incidental>? not important?
b/ do you think that people didnt have those faults that you listed above before 1914?

actually I have a few points but probably not really appropriate for this thread?


COULD IT BE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GOOD AND EVIL ITS JUST THAT NOW THERE IS MILLIONS MORE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET AND MODERN TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE THE WORLD A SMALLER PLACE THAT WE SEE IT MORE.

revelations that you quoted above could be used for any time in history. as well as the natural disasters that you reckon is your back up. fair dinkum think clearly man.
here is a question for you....... moses and the ark... is it real or not. I mean animals 2by 2 and the rest wiped out. or do you have another version?

[greymare]

my bad I meant Noah. but now I mention it moses 10commandments. was there ten .

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

I am pleased to hear that you have mathematically worked out to an exact date when we are to take this from.

only the true God has worked the prophecies out, and they always come true . and they are always spot on .



now a king who represents the true God is ruling (Jesus) he is the one to whom it belongs , he is the rightful heir to the throne .

yes its all happening in the last days .


How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.


Some vestige of Jewish sovereignty still remained in the person of Gedaliah, whom the king of Babylon had appointed as governor of the remaining Jewish settlements. “In the seventh month,” Gedaliah and some others were assassinated, so that the remaining Jews fled in fear to Egypt. Then only, from about October 1, 607 B.C.E., was the land in the complete sense “lying desolated . . . to fulfill seventy years.”—2 Ki. 25:22-26; 2 Chron. 36:20, 21.

[greymare]

well, then according to you. the trampling would end? it isnt even close. is it? Remove the turban and lift off the crown could be understood a few ways. ie: get rid of all turban wearers. or is the crown hiding under a turban? or replace turban wearing (religions) with a monachy??????? to me its all vague and could be interpreted into any era. Many have come before proclaiming their divinity (or had it declared for them) . to me its just mans(and womans)ego. Most people want to be part of the correct religion or faith and most people can back themselves up with quotes just like you are Mee. I dont bother because to me its just a good read. actually sometimes not even good. thats my view anyway.

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

well, then according to you. the trampling would end? it isnt even close. is it? Remove the turban and lift off the crown could be understood a few ways. ie: get rid of all turban wearers. or is the crown hiding under a turban? or replace turban wearing (religions) with a monachy??????? to me its all vague and could be interpreted into any era.

the crown was lifted off the king , the last king on the throne to represent Jehovah , was Zedekiah . that prophecy happened years ago.



How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26)


and now we are well along, and the one who has the legal right to the throne of David has recieved his kingship , because he has the legal right to it.

By rebelling, Zedekiah wounded himself in a deadly way. (Read Ezekiel 21:25-27.) When Judah’s king was deposed, the royal turban and the crown were removed. (2 Kings 25:1-7) The “high” kingdom of Judah was ‘brought low’ by being destroyed in 607 B.C.E. Thus the “low” Gentile kingdoms were “put on high,” leaving them in control of the earth without interference by a typical kingdom of God. (Deuteronomy 28:13, 15, 36, 43, 44) So began “the appointed times of the nations”—the Gentile Times—that ended in 1914 when God conferred kingship upon Jesus Christ, ‘the one having the legal right’ to it. (Luke 21:20-24; Psalm 110:1, 2; Daniel 4:15-28; 7:13, 14) With Jesus on a HEAVENLY throne, Gentile nations cannot trample upon what ancient Jerusalem symbolized, the Kingdom of David’s legal heir.—Hebrews 12:22.

thrilling times indeed

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

well, then according to you. the trampling would end? it isnt even close. is it?

According to the bible it would end ,
and it ended in 1914 when Jesus took up kingship. and it was right on time .


talking about close , NOW we are very close to the time that Jesus will go into action , and Judge the nations of the whole earth.


Gods heavenly kingdom is now well established DANIEL 2;44 and Jesus has been reigning with great aurthority since 1914 DANIEL 7;13-14


Jesus reign has been going on amidst his enemies, yes human rulerships at the momment are still ruling on the earth , but very soon now as DANIEL; 2;44 informs us. God will step into the affairs of mankind , and Jesus is the one put there to do the judgeing



I am waving my symbolic palm branch to welcome Gods kingdom and the reigning king JESUS CHRIST along with a great crowd of others from all nations of the earth REVELATION 7;9-10


Yes, the trampling has ended and Gods chosen one is ruling

[greymare]

so in 1914 jesus took up kingship in heaven (which we cannot see). what date was this and did all of a sudden everyone looked up and said. hey whats that up there..... a guy sitting on a big chair in the sky. Must be jesus?????? If he is up ;there now in charge. question 1. what was he doing before???? having a holiday??? or doing his apprectiship??? question 2. arent you going to fix up the world or just let us muddle around ??? Statement 1. if he is in charge hes doing a **** of a job and needs counselling before being asked to resign. no union for this fella hes asleep on the job.

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

so in 1914 jesus took up kingship in heaven (which we cannot see). what date was this and did all of a sudden everyone looked up and said. hey whats that up there..... a guy sitting on a big chair in the sky. Must be jesus??????

i am glad to say that the early bible students in the 1800s kept awake to bible prophecy, so they were not surprised at all. in fact they were wide awake and ready for that 1914 date . the understanding was not so clear at that time but the 1914 date was bang on , but now the understanding about many things in the bible is abundant indeed .DANIEL 12;4 IS ALL HAPPENING ESPECIALLY IN THIS TIME OF THE END

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

If he is up ;there now in charge. question 1. what was he doing before???? having a holiday??? or doing his apprectiship???.

acting as high priest ,and waiting at Gods right side for the time of the end (1914) as soon as he was given kingship he cleaned the heavens up first REVELATION 12;9, HE DOES NOT WANT REBELS IN THE HEAVENS IT CAUSES OPPOSITION TO GODS PURPOSE,(so he has cast them out ) a good goverment is no good if there are rebels in it . would you not agree ?

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

2. arent you going to fix up the world or just let us muddle around ???

And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; DANIEL 2;44



He is not going to let us muddle around for much longer


soon all of the manmade rulerships will have been put out of the way , just as he did with those in opposition in the heavens . one step at a time ,and the true God Jehovah has his own time to tell Jesus when to go into action .

but now we are well along into the time of the end . the end of human rulership is just around the corner.



(Psalm 2:9) You will break them with an iron scepter, As though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.”



(Psalm 110:5) Jehovah himself at your right hand Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.



(Isaiah 60:12) For any nation and any kingdom that will not serve you will perish; and the nations themselves will without fail come to devastation.



(Revelation 19:15) And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.

[mee]

Originally Posted by greymare

if he is in charge hes doing a **** of a job and needs counselling before being asked to resign. no union for this fella hes asleep on the job.

for those with the eye of understanding , and for those who see clearly ,he is the best ruler ,and he is doing a grand job . and its all one step at a time . putting people on notice about the GOODNEWS of the kingdom , and helping people to respond to the goodnews , is running along nicely