Just thinking and ranting

[not666or777]

What do you remember before birth…

Now I’m not a psychic but let m guess….


Is it nothing..


Yes of course it is we all remember nothing from birth and all of us who had horrible horrible experiences during childhood don’t remember anything till we were older.

While I am a man of diverse cultures and learned many things, I have never found a universal in religion and don’t expect too. I’m not trying to kill the gravy train (stupid, i know), but what is it with religions. There are so many and so many are so different, which means quite blatantly, none are the same. Therefore, there is no universal, and thus none is really true.

I want to believe, but there is no real way. Am I right or am I just crazy!!! We all believe nothing before birth and we will probably remember nothing after we die. Now I don’t want anyone to give some crazy theory on what they think, I want some universal answers. No crazies here. No messiahs.

What do you guys think about religion from a holistic perspective? Really, no BS on this one, i.e. bias perspectives. This is the comparative religion section lets try to figure some stuff out.

By the way all [people] that cant be holistic stay out of this conversation. I want real minds not brainwashed ones…

Thanks guys and, of course, gals…

[dauer]

Welcome to c-r, not!

Yes of course it is we all remember nothing from birth and all of us who had horrible horrible experiences during childhood don’t remember anything till we were older.

I remember horrible experiences during childhood.

While I am a man of diverse cultures and learned many things, I have never found a universal in religion and don’t expect too

What about some of it experientially?

Therefore, there is no universal, and thus none is really true.

Do we ever have any truth besides the subjective in our lives? Why is it impossible for one to be true and the rest to be wrong (not that I believe this to be the case)?

I want to believe, but there is no real way.

Why do you want to believe so badly?

Am I right or am I just crazy!!!

It was right for you at the moment you said it. I don't think that's crazy.

We all believe nothing before birth

How do you know?

and we will probably remember nothing after we die.

From the perspective of a reductionist materlialist maybe. I think man has a habit of trying to make sense of the world, sometimes by engaging in myth, sometimes by examining the world around him as he is capable. In both cases we seem to get proven wrong as we learn more.

Now I don’t want anyone to give some crazy theory on what they think, I want some universal answers.

Why so much hunger for absolutes? What about the meaning you find in your own experience of the world?

What do you guys think about religion from a holistic perspective?

I think either a holistic or integral approach is probably healthiest. Wouldn't that by default mean accepting that there are multiple ways of approaching and viewing any given situation? To be holistic, how can we exclude the mythical, or the reductionist?

Really, no BS on this one, i.e. bias perspectives.

What's an unbiased perspective?

By the way all [people] that cant be holistic stay out of this conversation. I want real minds not brainwashed ones…

So the only non-brainwashed perspective is then the holistic one? Why isn't holism also a brainwashed perspective? Have you been brainwashed to believe that everyone who holds a perspective that differs greatly from your own must be brainwashed?

Dauer

[dauer]

I want to share a story by nachman of breslov with you. It's a very short story but maybe it says something to you.


So a king says to his prime minister, a good friend of his, that he's foreseen it. All the people that eat the grain that year would go mad. He asks his friend the prime minister for advice. The prime minister says to him, "Well, let's put aside some grain and then we don't have to eat the bad grain this year."

The king doesn't like that idea. He says, "If we don't eat the grain we'll be the only sane people. Everyone else in the land'll be mad. Then they'll think we're mad." If they're the only sane ones they stick out and look crazy. "There's no way to set aside enough for everybody. So we've gotta eat the grain. But we'll put a mark on each other's foreheads. Then when we see each other I'll see your forehead and you'll see mine, and we'll remember, so then at least we'll know we're both mad."

[not666or777]

You answered quick and thanks for the welcome…

While you attacked me

And I love it….

You simply answered that there is a possibility that all of these things could happen….

And they could happen…

I never excuse that…

Let me just say that in my studies of different cultures and religions there is always something different nothing is ever the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough with the exclamation marks right, okay

Let me ask if you have read many culture’s religions?

If you have, you will know that they are all different.

Rasta’s smoke pot to commune, Buddhists meditate, Woarani take DMT to really get messed up, and Christians pray… Yep all are different

In fact, Rasta’s are combining a number of different religions and so are all the rest…

We as humans need some kind of proof, that’s what we do, and that is science from a western perspective. I would like to hear something against that but you are obviously a white guy, from the picture, which means you have definitely biased western view whatever you say. Sorry I wont believe any BS you give me other wise because most of the world is Westernly biased and being white makes you 99% right there with the rest of us.

What I am saying, and what you are not answering, is what are the universals in religion from a humanistic point of view because

WE DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE WE WERE BORN!!!!!!!! YOU SAY WE MIGHT BUT

I have to believe if we knew what happened before we were born, WEB SITES LIKE THIS WOULD NOT EXIST!!!!!!


BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS!!!!!


Thanks for making this a great discussion

[not666or777]

Originally Posted by dauer

I want to share a story by nachman of breslov with you. It's a very short story but maybe it says something to you.


So a king says to his prime minister, a good friend of his, that he's foreseen it. All the people that eat the grain that year would go mad. He asks his friend the prime minister for advice. The prime minister says to him, "Well, let's put aside some grain and then we don't have to eat the bad grain this year."

The king doesn't like that idea. He says, "If we don't eat the grain we'll be the only sane people. Everyone else in the land'll be mad. Then they'll think we're mad." If they're the only sane ones they stick out and look crazy. "There's no way to set aside enough for everybody. So we've gotta eat the grain. But we'll put a mark on each other's foreheads. Then when we see each other I'll see your forehead and you'll see mine, and we'll remember, so then at least we'll know we're both mad."

While I am a fan of subjectivity and pluralism, this story only proves you ability to tell a story, which we in Hollywood do all the time…

By the way, that’s our jobs….

To tell great stories and have people believe that is the truth…

However, this is not a story and I want no BS, I want truthfulness and thats all I ask of this discussion.

As was put by OutKast:

“Im just, Im just, Im just, Im just being honest”

I must still say i like the respones it is a great thing to have free and open minds come to this area

BECAUSE I AM NOT RIGHT I AM NEVER RIGHT

I just make points i feel are relevant


TALK PEOPLE

[dauer]

While you attacked me

I never attacked you.

Let me ask if you have read many culture’s religions?

If you have, you will know that they are all different.

I have, and I'm not sure how what you're saying addresses my response at all.

Rasta’s smoke pot to commune, Buddhists meditate, Woarani take DMT to really get messed up, and Christians pray… Yep all are different

Those are spiritual practices, the body that clothes the soul of the matter. What is the essence of each, and what is the essence of the essence of each?

We as humans need some kind of proof,

Some of us are happy to live in doubt and do not seek proof, may not believe it is entirely possible to confirm something is true at all.

I would like to hear something against that but you are obviously a white guy, from the picture, which means you have definitely biased western view whatever you say

For someone looking for answers, you do seem to make a lot of assumptions, which is to presume you already have the answers. I have no more interest in affirming the absolute truth of science than I do in affirming the absolute truth of religion and I find the approach of the intellect to only be a piece of the puzzle. If you examine what I said in my response to you, you'll find I address some of the fallacies of Western thought like reductionism. And I'm not white. I'm Jewish and I'm caucasian, but I'm not white nor have I ever considered myself a part of your so-called white male majority.

Sorry I wont believe any BS you give me other wise because most of the world is Westernly biased and being white makes you 99% right there with the rest of us.

So everything I say is bs simply because you consider me to be white?

What I am saying, and what you are not answering, is what are the universals in religion from a humanistic point of view because

By humanism do you mean specifically secular humanism, a product of Western society, or do you mean the more general sense of a human-centered philosophy? For someone interested in comparative religion, you hardly seem to want to hear any ideas besides those that fit within your own narrow definition of what is the correct approach. I gave a suggestion that the universal might be experience, experience at the base level. What is religion in response to? What does it attempt to stimulate and develop? If we get to the base experiential level I think we can find a lot more similarities. That's why deep ecumenism is so much more successful in interfaith relating than discussing theology.

WE DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE WE WERE BORN!!!!!!!! YOU SAY WE MIGHT BUT

I have to believe if we knew what happened before we were born, WEB SITES LIKE THIS WOULD NOT EXIST!!!!!!

If you're going to get into the habit of shouting, it might help if you address instead what other people have responded to you. I never said we might know what happened before we were born. It's possible some of us do. What I actually said is that I can remember painful events in my childhood and I questioned your statement that we believe nothing before birth. How can you state that you believed nothing before birth if you yourself don't remember that time?

While I am a fan of subjectivity and pluralism, this story only proves you ability to tell a story, which we in Hollywood do all the time…

Perhaps instead of criticizing my method you could respond to some of the ideas raised in the story. You seem to have instead dodged it entirely, as you did most of what I said, by devaluing the position from which I address you based on the group you assume I affiliate with and going into ad hominem attacks.

If you're interested in discussion, respond to the points I raise instead of dismissing them without a developed response.

[Postmaster]

Originally Posted by not666or777

While I am a man of diverse cultures and learned many things, I have never found a universal in religion and don’t expect too. I’m not trying to kill the gravy train (stupid, i know), but what is it with religions. There are so many and so many are so different, which means quite blatantly, none are the same. Therefore, there is no universal, and thus none is really true.

Religion itself is a universal practise, trying to disprove religion is a religious act too.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by not666or777

We all believe nothing before birth and we will probably remember nothing after we die.

You are assuming that what happens at before birth will happen after death. While I might agree with the first part of that statement, let me suggest this:

Until our birth, we had no history (unless you are a reincarnationist). But at our death, there is a history. We've written this history in our minds and in the minds of others around us, and in the cases of celebrity, in the minds of people we probably don't even know. For good or bad we have had an influence on each other. You are assuming that that memory doesn't live on. Perhaps. So you are also assuming that our life ends at death, but then you don't really know that either, do you. But it makes sense to me that if there were an afterlife, our memory would remain intact. Neverthless, our history will stay intact, in the memories of others who are still alive. And our influence in many cases will remain intact. Have you ever listened to music by a dead composer and "felt" the emotions that come through the piece? How alive that music is, even though the person who created it is gone? If your parents are dead, do you still not feel their influence at times in your life?

[Postmaster]

"Every action creates an equal and opposite reaction". I guess after death will be opposite to before birth.