John the Baptist

[didymus]

I have been focusing some attention on John the Baptist lately. His notoriety in Jesus' day seems to be greatly minimized. As some may know, there is still a following of John the Baptist today known as the Mandaeans. they live in Southern Iraq and still revere John as their leader and practice ritual bathing and baptism.

Sometimes I wonder if John and Jesus were almost as a team since they preached a very similar message. Baptism, repentance and the coming kingdom of god. And at times it even seems that Jesus' preaching picked up momentum after John's imprisonment and culminated after his death.

Mark 1:5 it says the whole judean country side and all of Jerusaem went to him to hear his message and be baptised. Jesus even went to him.
John even had a following in Ephesus, Acts 19:3, they had knowledge of John's teaching only. This was some time after Christs death and is considerably far from Judea. His teaching was still growing years after preaching and the crucifiction of Jesus.

John had disciples and taught them how to pray. Luke 11:1 Jesus taught his disciples to pray as John did. I wonder what John did with his disciples besides prayer and baptism. Traveled preaching the kingdom perhaps? How did his message reach Ephesus?

Matthew 4:17 and Mark 1:4
After hearing of John's imprisonment Jesus began to preach the kingdom. Did he take over for John?

I'm still looking for evidence in the gospels but it appears that Jesus began to speak of his suffering many things after he heard of the death of John. Although this I'm not sure of.

[Faithfulservant]

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the Lord of hosts.

Matthew 3:1-3 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.'

Mark 1:2-3 As it is written in the Prophets: "Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You." "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.' "

Luke 3:4-6 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight. Every valley shall be filled And every mountain and hill brought low; The crooked places shall be made straight And the rough ways smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.'

I just wanted to post these to show that John was the one that was sent to prepare the way of the Lord.

[Faithfulservant]

John the Baptist.

the "forerunner of our Lord." We have but fragmentary and imperfect accounts of him in the Gospels. He was of priestly descent. His father, Zacharias, was a priest of the course of Abia (1 Chronicles 24:10), and his mother, Elisabeth, was of the daughters of Aaron (Luke 1:5). The mission of John was the subject of prophecy (Matthew 3:3, Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1 ). His birth, which took place six months before that of Jesus, was foretold by an angel. Zacharias, deprived of the power of speech as a token of God's truth and a reproof of his own incredulity with reference to the birth of his son, had the power of speech restored to him on the occasion of his circumcision (Luke 1:64 ). After this no more is recorded of him for thirty years than what is mentioned in Luke 1:80 . John was a Nazarite from his birth (Luke 1:15, Numbers 6:1-12) He spent his early years in the mountainous tract of Judah lying between Jerusalem and the Dead Sea (Matthew 3:1-12)

At length he came into public life, and great multitudes from "every quarter" were attracted to him. The sum of his preaching was the necessity of repentance. He denounced the Sadducees and Pharisees as a "generation of vipers," and warned them of the folly of trusting to external privileges (Luke 3:8) "As a preacher, John was eminently practical and discriminating. Self-love and covetousness were the prevalent sins of the people at large. On them, therefore, he enjoined charity and consideration for others. The publicans he cautioned against extortion, the soldiers against crime and plunder." His doctrine and manner of life roused the entire south of Palestine, and the people from all parts flocked to the place where he was, on the banks of the Jordan. There he baptized thousands unto repentance.

The fame of John reached the ears of Jesus in Nazareth (Matthew 3:5)and he came from Galilee to Jordan to be baptized of John, on the special ground that it became him to "fulfil all righteousness" (3:15) John's special office ceased with the baptism of Jesus, who must now "increase" as the King come to his kingdom. He continued, however, for a while to bear testimony to the Messiahship of Jesus. He pointed him out to his disciples, saying, "Behold the Lamb of God." His public ministry was suddenly (after about six months probably) brought to a close by his being cast into prison by Herod, whom he had reproved for the sin of having taken to himself the wife of his brother Philip (Luke 3:19) He was shut up in the castle of Machaerus , a fortress on the southern extremity of Peraea, 9 miles east of the Dead Sea, and here he was beheaded. His disciples, having consigned the headless body to the grave, went and told Jesus all that had occurred (Matthew 14:3-12) John's death occurred apparently just before the third Passover of our Lord's ministry. Our Lord himself testified regarding him that he was a "burning and a shining light" (John 5:35)

[didymus]

faithful, where do you see that John's special office ceased after the baptism of Jesus? He clearly continued to preach and baptise after Jesus' baptism. They say he was locked up for his remark on Herod's wife, it could also have been due to his power in the area among the people. He had followers all the way to ephesus when Paul was around. How long after Jesus' death was that? There is still a group today in southern iraq that hold him dearly as their leader Mandaeans). And if his office ended after the baptism of Jesus why was John in in prison sending out his disciples to ask Jesus if he was the one to come or not?

[Faithfulservant]

Its pretty simple if you use logic... Johns purpose was preparing the way for the King.. once the King arrived to take over His kingdom the messenger stepped back to allow Christ to do what He came to do.. He said it himself that one far greater was to come and that he wasnt worthy... See? Dont put John on a pedastal that he doesnt belong on..

[didymus]

I'm just shaking the tree faithful to see what falls. There are alot of little gems in the Bible and I like to try and dig them up.

[miclason]

John and Jesus were cousins, weren't they? ....John's mission was to prepare the way for Jesus, so people would be open to his teachings...

[Marcion]

Going outside of orthadox teaching, some early christian movements saw John the Baptist as a Catholic interpolation to explain Messianic prophecy for Jesus. They thought the same for the Nativity, and quite a bit of other scenes from the Gospels. To the early churches of Paul, John the Baptist was seen as someone who never existed at all.

Then by Feudal to Medieval times John the Baptist has an even stranger position among heretical teachings. The Bogomils and Cathars thought he was an evil angel, formerly being the prophet Elijah who was transformed by the god of this world, Satan, and taken up to his Heaven. He was sent back to earth in the form of a Baptist to stop Jesus from fulfilling his mission, and be the forerunner of the evil antichrist who is to come. weird huh?

[didymus]

John was a very powerful figure in those days. I think that some imagined him to be the messiah. perhaps he even etertained the idea at one point. it seems clear from the gospel accounts that Jesus' momentum and preaching picked up after the arrest of John and his subsequent execution.

[didymus]

Just thought I'd dig this baby up again. It's been a while.

[chokmah]

nevermind

[Thomas]

There is strong evidence (see my post on the Essenes) that John was in some way, if not directly, affiliated to the Essene sect of Judiasm, and certainly saw his mission within that context. His condemnation of the Pharisees and Saduccees accords with the Essene view.

John the Apostle was a disciple of the Baptist who followed Christ. It is evident from Scripture that Christ never called the Baptist to follow him, yet his baptism is evidence of his endorsement of the Baptist's particular mission, and certainly God never abandoned Judaism.

Today in the Catholic Church we celebrate the Presentation of the firstborn male child at the Temple, in accordance with Jewish Law. It was here that Simeon:

"... took he him up in his arms (Jesus), and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."
Luke 2:28-32

Which in many ways pre-empts the Baptist, although Simeon saw that Christ came to save all men, and not just the Jews.

It is believed that St John's Gospel was written for an Essene audience, and there is strong suggestion that St Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews likewise was addressed to them.

Many Essenes converted, and in Antioch established the pattern of Christian Ecclesiology according to their Essenic practice. Many more would have remained doctrinal Essenes and they might well have been in Ephesus. Certainly the Book of the Apocalypse, penned by John (or his disciples) at Ephesus, employ Essene as well as old Testament symbology, and bears many comparisons to Essenic apocalyptic literature discovered among the Qumran texts.

The Bogomils and Cathari followed a gnostic deviation away from Essene doctrine on the question of the War between Light and Darkness with regard to the nature of the flesh. The Essenes saw the flesh (creation) as Good but Fallen; the Bogomils and Cathari saw the flesh as essentially evil.

This latter view renders humanity's foundation as a 'person' primordially dualistic, composed of the light (soul) become imperfect, caught and imprisoned in the darkness (body); the orthodox Essene view (although expressed most dualistically) hold's humanity's foundation as one, the light of the soul corrupted in itself by sin which renders the body (the material manifestation of, not something other than, the soul) corruptible.

The Baptists, the Judaic sect founded on John (not the Christian denomination) 'realises' Christianity within Judaism - it was witnessed as a Trinitarian event, the father's Voice, and the descent of the Holy Spirit and the body of the Son; the denomination realises Judaism within Christianity with its emphasis on Baptism and Justification ... just some ramblings...

Thomas